Comments on: Movie review: Waiting for the clouds http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/movie-review-waiting-for-the-clouds/ Connecting Greek Muslims - Connecting Rethinkers of Life Sun, 31 Jul 2011 12:00:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Amir Abdullah http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/movie-review-waiting-for-the-clouds/comment-page-1/#comment-1451 Amir Abdullah Thu, 23 Apr 2009 18:02:35 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=1674#comment-1451 Well, come join the forum if you would like to have discussions (by clicking on the "forum" button on the top). There are plenty of subjects being discussed there, and you can open whatever threads you want. There are no real restrictions in topics, except following the guidelines of the forum rules, but that shouldn't be a problem. By the way, I saw this movie a few days ago, I must say, it is more artistic rather than historical, but from an artistic point of view, it was really amazing! Well, come join the forum if you would like to have discussions (by clicking on the “forum” button on the top). There are plenty of subjects being discussed there, and you can open whatever threads you want. There are no real restrictions in topics, except following the guidelines of the forum rules, but that shouldn’t be a problem.

By the way, I saw this movie a few days ago, I must say, it is more artistic rather than historical, but from an artistic point of view, it was really amazing!

]]> By: Ioannis http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/movie-review-waiting-for-the-clouds/comment-page-1/#comment-1449 Ioannis Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:20:11 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=1674#comment-1449 I hate nobody! I thought the whole discussion was a bit philosophical rather than personal. Anyway, you people sound quite interesting to me and not awkward. I am just curious to learn about people with different choices and understand their motives and their thoughts. I like the different. It is intriguing to me, and feeds my thinking. I don't know if this web page is the best for such discussions, as it supposed to be a place for comments about the movie. I myself have my doughs about the will of the supreme being, the nature of it and even its existence. But that is my verdict and is a verdict that I can only encourage myself to stand on. Therefore as you said συν Θεῳ I hate nobody! I thought the whole discussion was a bit philosophical rather than personal. Anyway, you people sound quite interesting to me and not awkward. I am just curious to learn about people with different choices and understand their motives and their thoughts. I like the different. It is intriguing to me, and feeds my thinking. I don’t know if this web page is the best for such discussions, as it supposed to be a place for comments about the movie.

I myself have my doughs about the will of the supreme being, the nature of it and even its existence. But that is my verdict and is a verdict that I can only encourage myself to stand on. Therefore as you said συν Θεῳ

]]> By: Amir Abdullah http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/movie-review-waiting-for-the-clouds/comment-page-1/#comment-1447 Amir Abdullah Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:26:52 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=1674#comment-1447 Ioannis, I will tell you this. Our generation of Greek converts to Islam, is neoelliniko. We are at least 98% from present generations (of course there are also Greeks in our team who's roots go back to Muslim families) and we are trying to do exactly what you said, to make an image for ourselves, that we are not something different from the rest of the Greeks, like Greek atheists are still Greeks, and Greek Buddhists. We are not afraid to confront our fellow citizen in regards to accusations, because we know, and God knows (which gives us full confidence) that we have not wronged anyone, and not betrayed anyone, and it is only from our love towards God that we have changed, and in no way because of any hidden agendas or anything like that. We will stand as an open book for people to learn from, to learn to respect, to take as an example perhaps even, for the well being of Greece. So, if you do not trust us, that is your right, but do not hate us please. I have made my/our part clear, and hope that this is the start for better relations, συν Θεῳ. Ioannis, I will tell you this. Our generation of Greek converts to Islam, is neoelliniko. We are at least 98% from present generations (of course there are also Greeks in our team who’s roots go back to Muslim families) and we are trying to do exactly what you said, to make an image for ourselves, that we are not something different from the rest of the Greeks, like Greek atheists are still Greeks, and Greek Buddhists. We are not afraid to confront our fellow citizen in regards to accusations, because we know, and God knows (which gives us full confidence) that we have not wronged anyone, and not betrayed anyone, and it is only from our love towards God that we have changed, and in no way because of any hidden agendas or anything like that. We will stand as an open book for people to learn from, to learn to respect, to take as an example perhaps even, for the well being of Greece. So, if you do not trust us, that is your right, but do not hate us please. I have made my/our part clear, and hope that this is the start for better relations, συν Θεῳ.

]]> By: Ioannis http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/movie-review-waiting-for-the-clouds/comment-page-1/#comment-1441 Ioannis Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:36:09 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=1674#comment-1441 I only say that an average Greek feels that Islam historically has been against them. Especially when used either by the Ottoman Empire as a vehicle to expand into orthodox Christian areas, or by the subsequent Turkish state to unite Muslims under a secular nationalistic state. That is how they perceive Islam. That does not mean history is only made by black and white versions. The only reason I write here (and I have to admit in a different subject than the movie) is because I believe, confrontation of ideas will lead us all into a middle ground. It is a way to search the truth when both sides have a constructive attitude to find a common truth. In any case I believe that Greek Islam has to make an effort to create the framework which will not allow wider suspicion that it is a vehicle of foreign powers. That means it has to persuade that has Greek roots, that has sprung from Greek society and that is able to resist future manipulation from other Muslim countries. Otherwise, in the historical context I have cited it will always raise suspicion to the non-Muslims. As an old say says: "Cesar's wife does not have only to be faithful it must also seem to be faithful". I only say that an average Greek feels that Islam historically has been against them. Especially when used either by the Ottoman Empire as a vehicle to expand into orthodox Christian areas, or by the subsequent Turkish state to unite Muslims under a secular nationalistic state.

That is how they perceive Islam. That does not mean history is only made by black and white versions. The only reason I write here (and I have to admit in a different subject than the movie) is because I believe, confrontation of ideas will lead us all into a middle ground. It is a way to search the truth when both sides have a constructive attitude to find a common truth.

In any case I believe that Greek Islam has to make an effort to create the framework which will not allow wider suspicion that it is a vehicle of foreign powers. That means it has to persuade that has Greek roots, that has sprung from Greek society and that is able to resist future manipulation from other Muslim countries. Otherwise, in the historical context I have cited it will always raise suspicion to the non-Muslims. As an old say says: “Cesar’s wife does not have only to be faithful it must also seem to be faithful”.

]]> By: bilal http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/movie-review-waiting-for-the-clouds/comment-page-1/#comment-1440 bilal Thu, 23 Apr 2009 06:27:45 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=1674#comment-1440 Ioannis,cc Makis. We are Greeks who elected Islam as our religion,after search as individuals and human beings reflecting upon our life.,death and the Hereafter. We don't work for the deep state of Turkey and we are not fat cats fed by Saudi money. Wy are commited to work for peace,cooperation and integration of the muslim community in the greek society.We strongly oppose nationalism,the evil behind wars,genocides and millions of human lives lost and shattered. You may move to another blog to clash with Albanian,Fyromian,Bulgarian and Kemalist ultranationalists,argueing with low level scientfic evidence and zero strength of recommendation. Ioannis,cc Makis.
We are Greeks who elected Islam as our religion,after search as individuals and human beings reflecting upon our life.,death and the Hereafter.
We don’t work for the deep state of Turkey and we are not fat cats fed by Saudi money.
Wy are commited to work for peace,cooperation and integration of the muslim community in the greek society.We strongly oppose nationalism,the evil behind wars,genocides and millions of human lives lost and shattered.
You may move to another blog to clash with Albanian,Fyromian,Bulgarian and Kemalist ultranationalists,argueing with low level scientfic evidence and zero strength of recommendation.

]]> By: Amir Abdullah http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/movie-review-waiting-for-the-clouds/comment-page-1/#comment-1438 Amir Abdullah Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:35:13 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=1674#comment-1438 My friend, Ioannis, the only reason Greek converts to Islam where turkified/arabified etc. is because the Greeks did not LET them stay Greek. Since the Greeks adopted the mentality "Muslim=turk/arab/whatever else BUT Greek", the Greeks who embraced Islam felt like complete strangers in their own society, and not only did they not get accepted, most of the time, they were expelled to go live to Muslim countries. In contrast with them, we here, try to integrate into Greek society, and make it easier for Greeks to accept us how we are, so that we may keep our Greek identity, and have our Greek rights/obligations towards society and our fellow citizen. So if you are against our mission here, it means that you don't WANT us to keep our Greek identity, which in my turn I feel quite sad about. So, what do you think? Will you make a change in contrast with your forefathers, so that we may be able to make a change from our part in contrast to what the previous Greek converts to Islam (never) did? It's 75% in your hands, because we only stretch our hand for peace, but it is you who will either hit our hand away, or shake it instead. You tell me : ) Ειρηνη σοι και ελεος Του Θεου και ευλογια. My friend, Ioannis, the only reason Greek converts to Islam where turkified/arabified etc. is because the Greeks did not LET them stay Greek. Since the Greeks adopted the mentality “Muslim=turk/arab/whatever else BUT Greek”, the Greeks who embraced Islam felt like complete strangers in their own society, and not only did they not get accepted, most of the time, they were expelled to go live to Muslim countries. In contrast with them, we here, try to integrate into Greek society, and make it easier for Greeks to accept us how we are, so that we may keep our Greek identity, and have our Greek rights/obligations towards society and our fellow citizen. So if you are against our mission here, it means that you don’t WANT us to keep our Greek identity, which in my turn I feel quite sad about. So, what do you think? Will you make a change in contrast with your forefathers, so that we may be able to make a change from our part in contrast to what the previous Greek converts to Islam (never) did? It’s 75% in your hands, because we only stretch our hand for peace, but it is you who will either hit our hand away, or shake it instead. You tell me : )
Ειρηνη σοι και ελεος Του Θεου και ευλογια.

]]> By: Ioannis http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/movie-review-waiting-for-the-clouds/comment-page-1/#comment-1437 Ioannis Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:12:58 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=1674#comment-1437 The truth is that Greek world, the world of Greek colonies throughout eastern Mediterranean and West Anatolia and the world that Alexander the Great had spread in Asia preceded both Christianity and Islam in time. Therefore, both Christianity and then Islam came not with feathers to convert the Greeks. Persecutions against "Εθνικούς" or Believers of the 12 Gods of Olympus and followers of the customs of the forefathers (12 disciples of Christ - 12 disciples of the prophet Mohammad in Shia Islam, rings that a bell?), by the Early Byzantine Empire were grave and bloody. However christianity was manifested mainly in the Greek language by the gospels (not in Arabic or Hebrew). Had greatly influenced by the greek philosophy apart from Hebrew religion and was directed mainly towards the Greek world of the time. Therefore Christianity was a child of that Greek world. Islam, although it used the same methods with what the early Byzantine Empire used to establish state Christianity, it was not however a product of the Greek philosophy and world. It was a product of the Arabo-Judaic world of the middle east. Curran was not written in Greek, and it was not targeting the Greek world. It was adopted by people and political entities such as the Arabs, the Persians and the Turanic people that were enemies of the Byzantine state and its Christian populations, Greek and other at that time. If slam wants to convert some Greeks, Islam has first to convert Greek. I am saying that because in the name of Islam the last 6 centuries christian Greeks are persecuted and Greek Muslims are Turkified or Arabified and loose their historical heritage, their traditions and their language. These happened to Greeks converted in Islam in the distant past and continued until this century to Greek Muslims of Macedonia, Greta, and Pontus. Not to mention the Christian Greeks of Asia minor and their fate... The truth is that Greek world, the world of Greek colonies throughout eastern Mediterranean and West Anatolia and the world that Alexander the Great had spread in Asia preceded both Christianity and Islam in time. Therefore, both Christianity and then Islam came not with feathers to convert the Greeks.

Persecutions against “Εθνικούς” or Believers of the 12 Gods of Olympus and followers of the customs of the forefathers (12 disciples of Christ – 12 disciples of the prophet Mohammad in Shia Islam, rings that a bell?), by the Early Byzantine Empire were grave and bloody.

However christianity was manifested mainly in the Greek language by the gospels (not in Arabic or Hebrew). Had greatly influenced by the greek philosophy apart from Hebrew religion and was directed mainly towards the Greek world of the time. Therefore Christianity was a child of that Greek world.

Islam, although it used the same methods with what the early Byzantine Empire used to establish state Christianity, it was not however a product of the Greek philosophy and world. It was a product of the Arabo-Judaic world of the middle east. Curran was not written in Greek, and it was not targeting the Greek world. It was adopted by people and political entities such as the Arabs, the Persians and the Turanic people that were enemies of the Byzantine state and its Christian populations, Greek and other at that time. If slam wants to convert some Greeks, Islam has first to convert Greek.

I am saying that because in the name of Islam the last 6 centuries christian Greeks are persecuted and Greek Muslims are Turkified or Arabified and loose their historical heritage, their traditions and their language. These happened to Greeks converted in Islam in the distant past and continued until this century to Greek Muslims of Macedonia, Greta, and Pontus. Not to mention the Christian Greeks of Asia minor and their fate…

]]> By: Αλή http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/movie-review-waiting-for-the-clouds/comment-page-1/#comment-1337 Αλή Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:14:55 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=1674#comment-1337 Αδερφέ Χαϊρουλλάχ, συμφωνώ απόλυτα μαζί σου Αδερφέ Χαϊρουλλάχ,

συμφωνώ απόλυτα μαζί σου

]]> By: Hayrullah http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/movie-review-waiting-for-the-clouds/comment-page-1/#comment-1333 Hayrullah Fri, 03 Apr 2009 04:32:21 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=1674#comment-1333 Maki, Afta ta teleftaia pu les, ti shesi ehun me to DVD; Yiati vyikaman apo to thema; Kai yiati sinehia prospatheis kai epimeneis na sindeseis ta panta me kati "Elliniko"; Afto to "Elliniko"(alles fores alithino alles fantastiko) stiheio then ehei monopolio tin istoria twn Balkaniwn kai ths Anatolikhs Mesogeiou. Simfoneis me afto, ne h ohi;;;; Kai kati allo...........to an oi simerinoi Tourkoi psahnoun tis rizes tous, pos diaferoun apo ton ipolipo kosmo tis gis;;; Kala kanoun. Monon enas asfaleis anthropos psahnei tin katagogi tou KAI TIN DEHETAI. Stin Elladha nomizeis then psahnoun tin katayoyi tous;;;; Alla yiati oi perissoteroi epimenoun ine "katharoi" Ellines;;;; Afou to xereis kai to xero oi simerinoi Ellines ine apo hilia karidia.......allios fainet o Ipirotis, allios o Makedonas, allios o Kritikos klp. (kai ehun diafores kulturas). Epidhi san Musulmani emis xeleftherothikaman apo afto to complex to ti ethnotita imaste, the mas endiaferei katavathos. To paradehomaste oti borei na ehume Elliniko, Turkiko, Araviko, Arvanitiko, Serviko, Romiko klp. mesa mas. Then hreiazomaste na ethnotita h mia ethnikistiki ideologia na mas dhosei noima zois. Vlepoume ton anthropo san anthropo kai afto ine to PAN. Oloi ine plasmata tu Enos Theou. Kai ta diafora hromata, kai oi epiloges ten anthropwn dihnoun tin Meyalotita Tou! Maki,

Afta ta teleftaia pu les, ti shesi ehun me to DVD; Yiati vyikaman apo to thema; Kai yiati sinehia prospatheis kai epimeneis na sindeseis ta panta me kati “Elliniko”; Afto to “Elliniko”(alles fores alithino alles fantastiko) stiheio then ehei monopolio tin istoria twn Balkaniwn kai ths Anatolikhs Mesogeiou. Simfoneis me afto, ne h ohi;;;;

Kai kati allo………..to an oi simerinoi Tourkoi psahnoun tis rizes tous, pos diaferoun apo ton ipolipo kosmo tis gis;;; Kala kanoun. Monon enas asfaleis anthropos psahnei tin katagogi tou KAI TIN DEHETAI. Stin Elladha nomizeis then psahnoun tin katayoyi tous;;;; Alla yiati oi perissoteroi epimenoun ine “katharoi” Ellines;;;; Afou to xereis kai to xero oi simerinoi Ellines ine apo hilia karidia…….allios fainet o Ipirotis, allios o Makedonas, allios o Kritikos klp. (kai ehun diafores kulturas).

Epidhi san Musulmani emis xeleftherothikaman apo afto to complex to ti ethnotita imaste, the mas endiaferei katavathos. To paradehomaste oti borei na ehume Elliniko, Turkiko, Araviko, Arvanitiko, Serviko, Romiko klp. mesa mas. Then hreiazomaste na ethnotita h mia ethnikistiki ideologia na mas dhosei noima zois. Vlepoume ton anthropo san anthropo kai afto ine to PAN. Oloi ine plasmata tu Enos Theou. Kai ta diafora hromata, kai oi epiloges ten anthropwn dihnoun tin Meyalotita Tou!

]]> By: Makis http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/movie-review-waiting-for-the-clouds/comment-page-1/#comment-1331 Makis Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:01:59 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=1674#comment-1331 Εγώ Αλή βλέπω ότι διαφέρεις από τους υπόλοιπους Amir,Hayrullah,Anna αυτούς τους νοιώθω έλληνες ασχέτως θρησκείας, δεν τους γνωρίζω προσωπικά αλλά ο τρόπος που αντιμετωπίζουν τους άλλους είναι ελληνικός. Αντίθετα εσύ βγάζεις έναν απίθανο ανθελληνισμό και τελευταία έναν απίθανο "φιλοτουρκισμό". Το τί έχω γράψει εγώ και εσύ τα έχουν διαβάσει όλοι και μπορούν να βγάλουν συμπέρασμα. Συνέχεια ενώ λες ότι προτιμάς να είσαι άνθρωπος και όχι έλληνας τούρκος ή ότι άλλο, η μετέπειτα πορεία σου αποδεικνύει το αντίθετο απεχθάνεσαι τελικά τους έλληνες και βέβαια εκτιμάς τους τούρκους, λοιπόν γιά ποιό Ισλάμ μιλάς, όταν έχεις λάβει θέση επανειλημένως σχεδόν υστερικά κατά των ελλήνων. "Εγώ λοιπόν αντί για Έλληνας, Τούρκος, Άραβας, Γάλλος κ.τ.λ, προτειμώ να είμαι άνθρωπος. Δεν αναγνωρίζω καμία φυλή και κανέναν έθνος. Καλά κάνω και πηγαίνω στην Τουρκία και δεν πρόκειται να ρωτήσω τους Έλληνες. Κατάλαβες? Αυτή είναι η δικιά σου άποψη. Δηλαδή οι Έλληνες τα ξέρουν όλα? Και ποιοι νομίζουν ότι είναι οι Έλληνες τελικά? Τι εθνικιστικός φασισμός είναι αυτός." " Για σένα μόνο η Ελλάδα υπάρχει και είσαι φανατικός εθνικιστής." Εσύ υιοθέτησες τους γελοίους ισχυρισμούς του τούρκικου κατεστημένου, και μου λες ότι είμαι φανατικός εθνικιστής, δεν ξέρω αν είμαι φανατικός εθνικιστής ένα ξέρω όμως σίγουρα είμαι έλληνας και μακάρι να πεθάνω έλληνας έστω και μόνος μου. Ναι γιά μένα η Ελλάδα είναι σημαντική στην ζωή μου είναι ο τόπος μου η ρίζα μου, σέβομαι όλους τους λαούς αλλά δεν σέβομαι τους άθλιους παραχαράκτες και τους απατεώνες όπως είναι το στρατιωτικό κατεστημένο της Τουρκίας που γιά χρόνια ολόκληρα έστυβε και θέλει ακόμη να στύβει τους λαούς της Μικράς Ασίας ή τους απατεώνες των Σκοπίων που με τις πλάτες της Υπερατλαντικής "συμμάχου" κλέβουν αδιάντροπα αυτά που δεν τους ανήκουν. Αλλά και κάποιους "δικούς" μας εδώ που δεν σέβονται ούτε τον λαό μας το έθνος μας την ιστορία μας τις παραδόσεις μας και θέλουν να μας κάνουν μαϊμουδάκια των δυτικών αφεντικών τους είτε ευρωπαϊκών είτε αμερικανικών. Αυτά πιστεύω και αυτός είμαι. Εγώ Αλή βλέπω ότι διαφέρεις από τους υπόλοιπους Amir,Hayrullah,Anna αυτούς τους νοιώθω έλληνες ασχέτως θρησκείας, δεν τους γνωρίζω προσωπικά αλλά ο τρόπος που αντιμετωπίζουν τους άλλους είναι ελληνικός.
Αντίθετα εσύ βγάζεις έναν απίθανο ανθελληνισμό και τελευταία έναν απίθανο “φιλοτουρκισμό”.
Το τί έχω γράψει εγώ και εσύ τα έχουν διαβάσει όλοι και μπορούν να βγάλουν συμπέρασμα.
Συνέχεια ενώ λες ότι προτιμάς να είσαι άνθρωπος και όχι έλληνας τούρκος ή ότι άλλο, η μετέπειτα πορεία σου αποδεικνύει το αντίθετο απεχθάνεσαι τελικά τους έλληνες και βέβαια εκτιμάς τους τούρκους, λοιπόν γιά ποιό Ισλάμ μιλάς, όταν έχεις λάβει θέση επανειλημένως σχεδόν υστερικά κατά των ελλήνων.
“Εγώ λοιπόν αντί για Έλληνας, Τούρκος, Άραβας, Γάλλος κ.τ.λ, προτειμώ να είμαι άνθρωπος. Δεν αναγνωρίζω καμία φυλή και κανέναν έθνος.

Καλά κάνω και πηγαίνω στην Τουρκία και δεν πρόκειται να ρωτήσω τους Έλληνες. Κατάλαβες?

Αυτή είναι η δικιά σου άποψη. Δηλαδή οι Έλληνες τα ξέρουν όλα? Και ποιοι νομίζουν ότι είναι οι Έλληνες τελικά? Τι εθνικιστικός φασισμός είναι αυτός.”

” Για σένα μόνο η Ελλάδα υπάρχει και είσαι φανατικός εθνικιστής.”

Εσύ υιοθέτησες τους γελοίους ισχυρισμούς του τούρκικου κατεστημένου, και μου λες ότι είμαι φανατικός εθνικιστής, δεν ξέρω αν είμαι φανατικός εθνικιστής ένα ξέρω όμως σίγουρα είμαι έλληνας και μακάρι να πεθάνω έλληνας έστω και μόνος μου.
Ναι γιά μένα η Ελλάδα είναι σημαντική στην ζωή μου είναι ο τόπος μου η ρίζα μου, σέβομαι όλους τους λαούς αλλά δεν σέβομαι τους άθλιους παραχαράκτες και τους απατεώνες όπως είναι το στρατιωτικό κατεστημένο της Τουρκίας που γιά χρόνια ολόκληρα έστυβε και θέλει ακόμη να στύβει τους λαούς της Μικράς Ασίας ή τους απατεώνες των Σκοπίων που με τις πλάτες της Υπερατλαντικής “συμμάχου” κλέβουν αδιάντροπα αυτά που δεν τους ανήκουν. Αλλά και κάποιους “δικούς” μας εδώ που δεν σέβονται ούτε τον λαό μας το έθνος μας την ιστορία μας τις παραδόσεις μας και θέλουν να μας κάνουν μαϊμουδάκια των δυτικών αφεντικών τους είτε ευρωπαϊκών είτε αμερικανικών. Αυτά πιστεύω και αυτός είμαι.

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