To the President and then to Euro Court
May 31, 2009 by Guest Author
Source: Kathimerini
The Chairman of the Muslim Association of Greece Mr Naim Elghandour reveals through “K” the intention to appeal to the European Court if their demand for an Islamic Mosque in Athens is not met. “The time is running out ,putting as deadline the answer of The President of The Democracy in a related letter of the Union.
“The President of The Democracy is our last hope,” stresses Mr Elghadour “If there is no answer ,or if we see that despite his positive attitude ,still nothing is being done, the only way is The European Institution. 
However already via specific websites (such as the popular greeksrethink.com) Muslims who live in our country are in a race to mobilise their “brothers” abroad.
The Global Greek community is large and scattered in every corner of the globe(Canada, USA, UK, Australia and elsewhere.) “ We are asking for their support in our cause ” says the Chairman of MAG . “Initially just to ask the priest in their local parish if they would accept the creation of an Islamic Mosque in Athens.” Given recent statements by Archbishop Ieronymos who spoke about the obvious and inalienable right of every human being to freely worship his Lord. The Greek Muslims have secured a positive response from their priests.
“Listen! Things are simple” says Mr Elghandour. “ Thirty years have passed since allegedly started the construction of the Islamic Mosque but we are still at talks. I consider that the demand is not only ours but of every freedom loving person on the planet”.
Athens , a city in which live more than 700,00 Muslims , is the only European country without a Mosque and a Muslim Cemetery. For their worship needs the Muslims are served by app 100 informal mosques operating in various parts of the Capital , in apartments, garages, warehouses and basements. Even this way of exercising their religious duties is not without a hindrance. A few months ago the Prefecture in Athens fined the owner of a basement in Nea Ionia ,which was being used as an informal mosque 60,000 and 30,000 Euros as there was no special licence for the premises.
The decision sparked off one of the largest (up to then) mobilisation of Muslims in Athens involving more than 1000 believers demanding an official place of worship.
We all remember the strong opposition of the Municipality and of the residents of Paeania, when in 2000, by law 2833 it had been decided the construction of the Islamic Centre with the expenses to be borne by Saudi Arabia.
This project never materialised and the only reminder of the story is the cross on the slope of the mountain which continues to welcome those who leave the airport with Athens as their destination.
However neither the last chapter seems to have a happy ending for the Muslim community. This project which in 2006 passed in the Parliament according to which the Islami Mosque would be constructed at a naval base in Botanicals ( where at the moment there is a supermarket and offices of the Greek Navy) and gave provision to a series of safeguards to prevent such as the Imam being a civil servant.
In the beginning we were told that there were 57 acres.
From discussion to discussion and while ministers were changing the area kept on being reduced and finally it was down to 16 acres.
“Even if it is 16 acres or 16 yards , please let us built at last” pleads Mr Elghandour.
Difficult…….. The navy claims that it needs 5 million Euros to relocate , money that nobody is willing to spend. “ We told them that we can mobilise our people to find the money and give it to them but they replied that it ….sin. At the same time they can not find the money. In response to a recent question by a member of parliament, Mr Perikles Korovesi , the Defence Ministry said that they would investigate if the construction of the Islamic Mosque raises an issue of safety to the base.
“ Now all of a sudden they are afraid that the Muslims might go to the supermarket and steal macaroni and rice” says frowning The Chairman of MGA , Mr Elghandour. And the letter we have sent to the Minister of Education remains unanswered.
“The truth is that we have not fallen to zero. We have fallen below zero. And for you to know, the American Embassy and other International Human Rights Organisations have approached us asking about these problems and I have answered “ No thanks, there is the possibility that there is a mistake.” Because we are Greeks and we have no intention to expose our country or be reported in the state department.
“We love Greece. The problems are ours and we do not need “the neighbourhood” to know.
But this is not appreciated by the Government” concludes Mr Elghandour.
Asalamu aleycum,
Personally I don’t expect miracles from the greek administration.The issue for a mosque in Athens has not been answered since 1880 when it had been adressed for the first time.
The last time officialy rejected was in 1984.
Well said, brother, this is democracy for you!! This is for some Muslims who tend to vote for these hypocretical governments and think democracy’ is good… Subhanallah…
I just wanted to add that although we might not agree at times we have to exercise the right to vote ,even for these corrupt Governments.
I few weeks ago I voted in the recent Euroelections for the less of 2 evils.
Would do anything to oppose National Front so I voted for their opponent.
I believe that lobbying Governments can be very effective at times. Keep on knocking at the door, eventually it might open. When I had an issue I wrote to my local MP and No 10 Downing Street. It was when they were trying to close the Interpal Bank Account facility. I demanded an explanation and they responded. If not I would have carried on and on and on…………..
Xenia mou
I understand what you are trying to say, and many Muslim brothers and sisters tend to foillow this reasoning. However, I would like you and all of us to think, would Rasool Allah (saw) or any of his companions (ra) ever vote for any of the corrupt rulers of his time? I do not think so. We just always need to go back to the Quran and the Sunnah before we act, to use our rational only is not safe. Also, the less of two evils only applies in issues that are mubah (permissible), or in the worst makrooh…The issue of voting for the the corrupt governments, who try to play the role of Allah and legislate and rule by kufr, is pure shirk, not only haram, but shirk. Therefore, we have not choice in this matter, Allah knows best.
Xenia,
i agree completely with you, because I have the right and previlige to vote under the democratic government that i live, Allahu Akbar!!
and i voted for a son of a penniless young man for my President and i know that this would never happen in the Islamic and Arab world,
<<<>>>>
Anna, i read your comments over and over again, trying to understand its meaning…….what are you trying to say?????
I do not want to be personal, but i need an example right now…..
your husband left and Islamic country and moved to a christian democracy and has been living under it for 32 years…..and he is not the only one….
If Democracy is such an evil thing, and you sound so angry and upset about it, why don’t you leave for an Islamic country, that would be considered hijrah, am i correct??
There are many muslims that consider voting a haram act in a democratic country, then why did they decide to do such a haram act and move to that country?
I know it is for search of economic opportunities, education, a variety of reasons, but anybody who feels that Democracy is so haram, by all means they are free to emigrate to a halal state of their choice.
I do not even want to touch the subject, that we have mosques in Greece, actually 300, in beautiful Thraki, all over Xanthi and Komotini….
and cemeteries too, Mashallah, i wish you could take a trip to see them.
It is just 2 hours away from my city of Salonica, and i recommend to all muslims who live in Greece to go visit them and see their beauty.
Anna mou this is not a small matter.
In a blog making comments such as:
QUOTE:[The issue of voting for the the corrupt governments, who try to play the role of Allah and legislate and rule by kufr, is pure shirk, not only haram, but shirk. Therefore, we have not choice in this matter, Allah knows best.]
Allah does know best and the disclaimer you put does not sweeten the pill.
You are personally accusing me of Shirk and Haram as a direct result of my comment that I voted.
I will answer you and tell you that the Prophet did not use to use the word HARAM except in rare situations. What makes you suddenly qualified to JUDGE?
In the very end if I did or did not commit Haram & SHIRK by voting is between me and Allah SWT.
I will face him on the Day of Judgement and He and only He knows what is in my heart.
The Religion of Islam is easy. We as humans complicate it. Islam should be in our hearts and in our clean way of living. Let not the lips say what the limps will not do. We are then going to be hypocrites.
Anna and all my brothers and sisters in Islam and humanity.
The Prophet PBUH had the best manner in explaining the Religion to people. He (PBUH) was never harsh. The Message he gave in the first 10 years of his mission was the belief in One God. The prohibitions came later , when the people were ready to listen and accept. By taking such strong positions and using words Shirk, Haram, if you was a Non Muslim what would you think? Would you want to know? Would that invite you to the Religion?
I will also point something else out:
We live in the West.
If you are in UK and you drive without car insurance , they take your licence and your car if you get stopped by the police. You loose your priviledgeto drive and you might loose your job. I have Car Insurance. What does that make me. A Disbeliever? Am I commiting “Haram” for wanting to provide for my family? Do you think the police will say:” Ah Xenia Y told us she is Muslimah. Let her go?” No , they are going to put me in the Van and take me where they want to take me. According to fatwas , any kind of insurance is Haram. There is the word again. Haram.
But having no job and relying on state handouts . What would you call that?
And Allah knows best. I put my trust in Allah SWT.
Xenia,
I can tell you are very upset, and so am I, because i know where you are coming from.
I am infuriated with people who convert to Islam in the West, because they were given the opportunity, and then they blame the West for everything, while living there.
Do I have to say it? please go to live in an islamic country, please.
You wil be shocked by the rapes, killings, thefts, adaltery , but by all means, it is an “Islamic” country…..nobody is holding you here….
Yusef Islam is a western scholar, born in the West and will probably die in the West, and so is Hamza Yusef, and Zaid Shakur and many others, extremely educated, world known, and if they live in the West and practice Islam, it is good enough for me!!
Yasmine upset is an understatement. How are we going to intergrate? How are we going to give the correct message of Islam? How are we going to spread the Peace? How are we going to make it easier for our children? Are we not suffering from the pre conceived wrong impressions that people have about Islam already? Find the truth, know the truth yourself and then go in a public forum and say it. I rest my case here. I think this is enough. Salam
Xenia,
Islam has been hijacked by the self righteous that think they know everything and then we have to obey them—–
if they think this is DAWAH, i have news for them—-they are turning people away before they say D……
Assalaam aleykum
I will try to reply inshallah to all the comments above that my sisters Xenia and Yasmine have made. I just have to clarify that all I say is only for the sake of Allah and out of love and care for my brothers and sisters in Islam. I do not personally judge or attack anyone, I just feel it is my duty to advise, if I see anything that needs attention.
Yasmine
See my reply to your comments in capitals:
[Anna, i read your comments over and over again, trying to understand its meaning…….what are you trying to say?????] WHAT IS IT THAT YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND? IT IS QUITE SIMPLE DEAR SISTER, DEMOCRACY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM, DEMOCRACY STANDS FOR KUFR IDEAS, IMPLEMENTS KUFR LAWS, MAN MADE LAWS, NOT THE LAWS OF ALLAH. THIS IS NOT MY OPINION, ASK ANY SECULARIST, ANY SCHOLAR, WHETHER THIS IS THE CASE OR NOT.
I do not want to be personal, but i need an example right now…..THIS IS NOT MY OPINION, ASK ANY SECULARIST, ANY SCHOLAR, WHETHER THIS IS THE CASE OR NOT. YOU MENTIONED YUSUF ISLAM, MAY ALLAH REWARD HIM FOR ALL HIS EFFORTS AND THE MUSLIM SCHOOLS HE HAS FUNDED, ETC, DID HE EVER EVER SAY HE BELIEVES IN DEMOCRACY? NO. AT THE END OF THE DAY, ANYBODY CAN LIVE ANYWHERE. EVERYWHERE IS ALLAH’S LAND. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I HAVE TO ACCEPT THE KUFR GOVERNMENTS AND THE DEMOCRACY WHICH MAKES THE HARAM, HALAL AND VICE VERSA. WHAT IS IT THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND?
[your husband left and Islamic country and moved to a christian democracy and has been living under it for 32 years…..and he is not the only one….] CHRISTIAN DEMOCRACY? LOL. NOT EXACTLY SISTER, ACCORDING TO A DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM, LEAVE TO GOD WHAT IS FOR GOD AND WHAT IS FOR CEASAR TO CEASAR, NO MIXING OF THE TWO….AS FOR MY HUSBAND, WHO INFORMED YOU THAT HE EVER LEFT AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY, POOR ASSUMPTION. FOR YOUR INFORMATION MILLIONS OF MUSLIMS ARE BORN IN THE UK OR OTHER COUNTRIES, WHO TOLD YOU THSAT THEY HAVE TO BE IMMIGRANTS? AND WHICH ISLAMIC COUNTRY YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? AS I HAVE MENTIONED IN MY COMMENTS ELSEWHERE THERE IS NOT A SINGLE ISLAMIC COUNTRY TODAY. THERE ARE MANY MUSLIM COUNTRIES (WHERE MUSLIMS LIVE IN) BUT A SINGLE ONE IS ISLAMIC (RULED BY SHARIAH).
[If Democracy is such an evil thing, and you sound so angry and upset about it, why don’t you leave for an Islamic country, that would be considered hijrah, am i correct??] I AM NEITHER ANGRY NOR UPSET, FROM THE TONE OF YOUR WRITING I THINK YOU ARE, AS YOU HAVE BECOME OFFENSIVE, ETC. I DO NOT NEED TO LEAVE THE UK, THIS IS ALLAH’S LAND, NEVERTHELESS THERE IS NO ISLAMIC COUNTRY I CAN GO TO, ALL COUNTRIES NOWADAYS ARE RULED BY KUFR. BELIEVE ME, MY DREAM IS TO LIVE UNDER AN ISLAMIC STATE EVEN FOR A DAY, BEFORE MY DEATH.
[There are many muslims that consider voting a haram act in a democratic country, then why did they decide to do such a haram act and move to that country?] VOTING IS NOT A HARAM ACT. VOTING FOR A KUFR PARTY IF SHIRK (WORSE THAN HARAM). TO MOVE INTO A COUNTRY IS NOT HARAM!!! I THINK YOU HAVE IT A LITTLE MIXED UP, SISTER. LET ALONE THAT YOU STILL TALK ABOUT MOVING INTO A COUNTRY, WHAT ABOUT THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THAT THIS IS THEIR COUNTRY????
[I know it is for search of economic opportunities, education, a variety of reasons, but anybody who feels that Democracy is so haram, by all means they are free to emigrate to a halal state of their choice.] I WISH SISTER THERE WAS A HALAL STATE OF MY CHOICE (HALAL STATE: LOOSELY I ACCEPT THE TERM ), I WOULD GO RUNNING!!! BUT POINT ONE OUT TO ME, PLEASE!
[I do not even want to touch the subject, that we have mosques in Greece, actually 300, in beautiful Thraki, all over Xanthi and Komotini….
and cemeteries too, Mashallah, i wish you could take a trip to see them.
It is just 2 hours away from my city of Salonica, and i recommend to all muslims who live in Greece to go visit them and see their beauty. ] SISTER I DO NOT WANT TO TRAVEL 10 FROM MY CITY OF ATHENS JUST TO SEE THE BEAUTY OF THE MOSQUES AS SIGHTSEEINGS. I NEED A FUNCTIONABLE MASJID THAT MUSLIMS CAN GO FOR JUMAH, ISHA, ETC ETC ETC.
Xenia
I also reply to some of your comments in capitals:
[Allah does know best and the disclaimer you put does not sweeten the pill.
You are personally accusing me of Shirk and Haram as a direct result of my comment that I voted.] INEVER ACCUSED YOU PERSONALLY OF SHIRK/HARAM DEAR SISTER. NEITHER ANY OF MY MUSLIM BROTHERS AND SISTERS. WHEN I COMMENTED, I COMMENTED OF THE ACTION OF VOTING FOR KUFR/DEMOCRACY. I HAVE THE DUTY TO POINT OUT IF SOMETHING IS WRONG BUT I CANNOT JUDGE PERSONALLY ANYONE AS THEY MAY BE NOT HAVE THE UNDERSTANDING/KNOWLEDGE).
[I will answer you and tell you that the Prophet did not use to use the word HARAM except in rare situations. What makes you suddenly qualified to JUDGE?] I AM NOT QUALIFIED TO JUDGE YOU DEAR SISTER, AND I DO NOT JUDGE YOU, BUT IT IS MY DUTY TO POINT OUT THAT THE ACTION OF VOTING IS SHIRK. THE REST IS BETWEEN YOU AND ALLAH.
[In the very end if I did or did not commit Haram & SHIRK by voting is between me and Allah SWT.] PRECISELY
I will face him on the Day of Judgement and He and only He knows what is in my heart. PRESICELY. AND I AM SURE DEAR SISTER THAT YOU ARE VERY SINCERE, AND THIS IS WHY YOU FEEL UPSET AND OFFENDED. BUT PLEASE, DO NOT, AS MY INTENTION WAS NEVER TO UNDERMINE YOU/OFFEND YOU.
[The Religion of Islam is easy. We as humans complicate it. Islam should be in our hearts and in our clean way of living. Let not the lips say what the limps will not do. We are then going to be hypocrites. ] ACCORDING TO THE AQIDAH OF AHLUS SUNNAH WAL JAMMAH THE DEFINITION OF FAITH IS: CONVICTION OF THE HEART, TESTIFICATION BY THE TONGUE AND IMPLEMENTATION WITH THE LIMPS. THESE THREE ARE INSEPARABLE. BUT WHAT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT EVEN IF WE SAY SAY SOMETHING WITH OUR TONGUE AND WE ARE CONVINCED IN OUR HEART BUT WE CANNOT ACT UPON IT OUT OF WEAKNESS, WE ARE NOT HYPOCRITES, WE ARE JUST WEAK. E.G. THE EXAMPLE OF THE CAR INSURANCE YOU MENTIONED. YES, IT IS HARAM, BUT A HARAM ACTION DOES NOT MAKE YOU A DISBELIEVER, WE ARE NOT KHAWARIJ, XENIA. WHEN WE AS MUSLIMS SEE MUNKAR, EVIL, HARAM, AND WE DO NOT POINT IT OUT TO OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS, THEN WE ARE TRULY HYPOCRITES. YOU SEE, ACCORDING TO THE SHARIAH, EVERYTHING IS HALAL UNLESS IS STATED OTHERWISE. THIS IS THE PRINCIPLE. I AM NOT SCARED TO USE THE WORD HARAM, WHY YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS? TO EAT PORK IS HARAM, TO DRINK ALCOHOL IS HARAM. WHY YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE USE OF THE TERM? VERY LITTLE THINGS ARE HARAM IN THIS LIFE, XENIA, BUT WE SHOULD NOT HESITATE TO POINT THEM OUT, WHEN NECESSARY.
IN ISLAM, AS I AM SURE YOU KNOW LAREADY, THERE A FIVE FUNDAMENTAL CATEGORIES OF ACTIONS IN THE SHARIAH: HALAL, HARAM, MAKROOH, MUBAH, MANDOOB. ISLAM IS VERY EASY WAY OF LIFE, WE DO NOT NEED TO VOTE EVEN FOR THE REASON YOU MENTIONED (I.E. TO OPPOSE). AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT IS ALLAH SWT, WHO WILL LOOK AFTER US IF WE STICK BY HIS LAWS.
[But having no job and relying on state handouts . What would you call that?] WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY? IF YOU GENUINELY HAVE NO JOB THERE IS NOTHING WRONG TO CLAIM STATE BENEFITS. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG TO WORK IN THE WEST, NOTHING WRONG TO CLAIM BENEFITS EITHER. THIS IS NOT AN ACTION THAT ALLAH FORBIDS. IN FACT THE STATE BENEFITS IS A COPIED IDEA FROM ISLAM.
YASMINE
YOU SAID: [I am infuriated with people who convert to Islam in the West, because they were given the opportunity, and then they blame the West for everything, while living there.] GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY? BY WHOM? BLAIR OR BROWN? OF COURSE NOT, IT IS ALLAH WHO GUIDES, SISTER.
[Do I have to say it? please go to live in an islamic country, please.
You wil be shocked by the rapes, killings, thefts, adaltery , but by all means, it is an “Islamic” country…..nobody is holding you here….] I WILL PRETEND I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR OFFENSIVE AND RUDE MANNER, AND I WILL JUST ASK YOU AS EARLIER, POINT OUT TO ME AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY, AND I WILL GO!! UNTIL THEN I CAN STAY IN ALLAH’S LAND, ANYWHERE I AM. I WILL OBEY HIS LAWS TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY. I DO NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW AND WORSHIP DEMOCRACY. IF DEMOCRACY ASKS YOU TOMORROW TO REMOVE YOUR HIJAB ( IF YOU WEAR ONE) WOULD YOU HAPILLY DO IT? REMEMBER FRANCE… AS FOR THE CRIME IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES, I AM NOT SURPRISED, THERE IS NO ISLA MIC STATE TODAY.
AS TO YOUR COMMENT ELSEWHERE THAT SHARIAH CANNOT BE IMPLEMENTED, YOU ARE WRONG. IT WAS IMPLEMENTED AT THE TIME OF RASOOL ALLAH (SAW) AND AFTER WITH THE KHILAFAH RASHIDDON, AND LATER WITH MAY KHALIFS. KHILAFAH WAS DESTROYED WHEN CORRUPTION STARTED TO CREEP IN AND UNISLAMIC IDEAS. THEREFORE IT CAN AND WILL BE IMPLEMENTED AGAIN.
XENIA
YOU SAID: [How are we going to intergrate? ] I DO NOT BELIEVE WE AS MUSLIMS SHOULD INTEGRATE. INTERACT, YES. SPREAD THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM, ITS BEAUTY, SUPERIORITY ETC, YES. BUT NOT INTEGRATE. TO INTEGRATE MEANS TO INCORPORATE, TO SHARE, TO MIX THE VALUES OF ISLAM WITH THOSE OF THE WEST. WE DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT. WE CAN LIVE AND INTERACT IN THE WEST, SPREAD THE WORD OF ALLAH BUT NOT TO INTEGRATE AND LOSE OUR IDENTITY.
MASALAAM
SISTER I DO NOT WANT TO TRAVEL 10 FROM MY CITY OF ATHENS JUST TO SEE THE BEAUTY OF THE MOSQUES AS SIGHTSEEINGS. I NEED A FUNCTIONABLE MASJID THAT MUSLIMS CAN GO FOR JUMAH, ISHA, ETC ETC ETC.
——————
that is too bad, because these are some very beautiful and perfectly functional masajid.
Why are you constantly mentioning that there are no mosques in Greece, when there are 300? Are you trying to say that only Athens is greece, and the rest of us is not important?? that is extremely offensive to me, since i am from northern greece.
Anna, if you could, answer Pierras 10 questions, and then I’ll lock the comments. I think this topic has served it’s purpose.
Anna I am starting this reply in the name of Allah SWT the most Merciful the especially Merciful.
I am chaffed by your concerns but I am not going to hide that to me you sound like you represent Radical Islam and this is something that i give a miss.
You have failed to answerwhere did you get the definition of who is a just ruler and all your other Non supported Islamic references. Before we speak we need evidence. Otherwise is ………. I provide you with Hadiths, and supported my saying all the way. You chose to generalise.
It could be that instead of the Qur’an and the Sunnah you have been sort of influenced by a different school of thought ( I could not say)……..
I will reply to you in lower no upper case as I do not like shouting and violence.
You said:TO A DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM, LEAVE TO GOD WHAT IS FOR GOD AND WHAT IS FOR CEASAR TO CEASAR, NO MIXING OF THE TWO….AS FOR MY HUSBAND, WHO INFORMED YOU THAT HE EVER LEFT AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY,
I say: There is a misunderstanding:. Yasmine thought you are Anna S. And why should you worry if your husband was classed as immigrant? does it matter? or you are Proud of his Uk origin?
You said:I do not want to be personal, but i need an example right now…..THIS IS NOT MY OPINION, ASK ANY SECULARIST, ANY SCHOLAR, WHETHER THIS IS THE CASE OR NOT. YOU MENTIONED YUSUF ISLAM, MAY ALLAH REWARD HIM FOR ALL HIS EFFORTS AND THE MUSLIM SCHOOLS HE HAS FUNDED, ETC, DID HE EVER EVER SAY HE BELIEVES IN DEMOCRACY? NO. AT THE END OF THE DAY, ANYBODY CAN LIVE ANYWHERE. EVERYWHERE IS ALLAH’S LAND. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I HAVE TO ACCEPT THE KUFR GOVERNMENTS AND THE DEMOCRACY WHICH MAKES THE HARAM, HALAL AND VICE VERSA. WHAT IS IT THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND?
I say: You are personal thats why you are defending yourself. How can you say Kufr? The country that you live in you class and call Kufr.What a term…. They are just not yet Muslims and one day they might be. So Kufr………..is so horrible sounding form the mouth of a person sounding to have a good idea about islam and all islamic.
You said:
YOU HAVE BECOME OFFENSIVE, ETC. I DO NOT NEED TO LEAVE THE UK, THIS IS ALLAH’S LAND, NEVERTHELESS THERE IS NO ISLAMIC COUNTRY I CAN GO TO, ALL COUNTRIES NOWADAYS ARE RULED BY KUFR. BELIEVE ME, MY DREAM IS TO LIVE UNDER AN ISLAMIC STATE EVEN FOR A DAY, BEFORE MY DEATH.
I say: Pray and you will get. In the meantime you could Run. Run from the kufr you hate, the West and hide in a cave until the dawn of a Sharia run world. How would you then serve Allah? or Islam is only for you and you want to keep it close to your chest not sharing it. Indeed Islam and the worls and everything in it belongs to Allah.
You said:
THE DUTY TO POINT OUT IF SOMETHING IS WRONG BUT I CANNOT JUDGE PERSONALLY ANYONE AS THEY MAY BE NOT HAVE THE UNDERSTANDING/KNOWLEDGE).
I say: You already sound so so so super superior and above all. You also sound judgemental. Very much so. Before we accepted Islam we all aquired knowledge. We still try and we will to teh end of our lives. How did you get accomplishe so quickly? Pleas elet me know to do the same.W e ,most of us have degrees but not boast about it, we are educated and cultured and religiously competent. So please do not use this tone. It puts people off.
You said:
OU MENTIONED. YES, IT IS HARAM, BUT A HARAM ACTION DOES NOT MAKE YOU A DISBELIEVER, WE ARE NOT KHAWARIJ, XENIA. WHEN WE AS MUSLIMS SEE MUNKAR, EVIL, HARAM, AND WE DO NOT POINT IT OUT TO OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS, THEN WE ARE TRULY HYPOCRITES. YOU SEE, ACCORDING TO THE SHARIAH, EVERYTHING IS HALAL UNLESS IS STATED OTHERWISE. THIS IS THE PRINCIPLE. I AM NOT SCARED TO USE THE WORD HARAM, WHY YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS? TO EAT PORK IS HARAM, TO DRINK ALCOHOL IS HARAM. WHY YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE USE OF THE TERM? VERY LITTLE THINGS ARE HARAM IN THIS LIFE, XENIA, BUT WE SHOULD NOT HESITATE TO POINT THEM OUT, WHEN NECESSARY.
IN ISLAM, AS I AM SURE YOU KNOW LAREADY, THERE A FIVE FUNDAMENTAL CATEGORIES OF ACTIONS IN THE SHARIAH: HALAL, HARAM, MAKROOH, MUBAH, MANDOOB. ISLAM IS VERY EASY WAY OF LIFE, WE DO NOT NEED TO VOTE EVEN FOR THE REASON YOU MENTIONED (I.E. TO OPPOSE). AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT IS ALLAH SWT, WHO WILL LOOK AFTER US IF WE STICK BY HIS LAWS.
[But having no job and relying on state handouts . What would you call that?] WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY? IF YOU GENUINELY HAVE NO JOB THERE IS NOTHING WRONG TO CLAIM STATE BENEFITS. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG TO WORK IN THE WEST, NOTHING WRONG TO CLAIM BENEFITS EITHER. THIS IS NOT AN ACTION THAT ALLAH FORBIDS. IN FACT THE STATE BENEFITS IS A COPIED IDEA FROM ISLAM.
I say:
Allahoo Akhbar. How so very gracious of you. You are calling me a sinner but not a disbeliever? Thank you so much>>>>>>>>>You rather i break the law, loose my job , rely on YOU to feed me and my kids and take the money from somebody else who needs it more SO I Do not get car insurance?
Are you saying that? I have news for youuuuuuuuuu. Allah wants us to work and strive and not sit on our b………………. all day. Worship when is time and work and support your family. Or you prefer to stay at home? And be kept.
You said:ENIA
YOU SAID: [How are we going to intergrate? ] I DO NOT BELIEVE WE AS MUSLIMS SHOULD INTEGRATE. INTERACT, YES. SPREAD THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM, ITS BEAUTY, SUPERIORITY ETC, YES. BUT NOT INTEGRATE. TO INTEGRATE MEANS TO INCORPORATE, TO SHARE, TO MIX THE VALUES OF ISLAM WITH THOSE OF THE WEST. WE DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT. WE CAN LIVE AND INTERACT IN THE WEST, SPREAD THE WORD OF ALLAH BUT NOT TO INTEGRATE AND LOSE OUR IDE
” You sound to me like you are frightened of The West and their influences. If your faith is at the right level and allah permitting nothing can touch you. Stay whre you are and show them by example that We are the Best of People. The people of Rasool Allah.” Do you want to be isolated and with tha isolate Islam , the Religion that is for ever and for all and not for selected few? If that, just go ahead. You might as well book the latest Space Holiday. you only need £200,000 GBP. Thats what you imply. ” If the fire is 2 much for you, just get out of the kitchen.” I am staying to show that islam is The True Religion sent by Allah to the Worlds and I am the best ambassador for Allah and His Prophet.
I spent all day yesterday trying to answer you dear Anna.
I have nothing else to say. I do not know you and is not personal. What hurts me is that people like you make Islam look and sound dificult, inflexible, barbaric, and oppressive. So do not fall in this category. This post will close so my only chance to say to you.
Asalamu Alaykum
Assalam aleikoym se oloys,
emeis pou exoume mathi na zoume sti dysi,prospathoume na porevomaste sti zwi mas symfona me ton nomo tou Allah kai na prospathoume kathe mera na ginomaste kaliteroi kai na kanoume to kalytero gia tous anthropous, to islam einai gia olous, ego den tha mporousa na ziso sthn saoudiki aravia, oxi giati kano kati kako i paranomo alla tha enoiotha na me pnigei ayto to sistima,giati allou einai aystiro kai allou einai ellipis, diladi den tha eprepe na eimai muslim?
To islam prepei na einai prosito gia olo ton kosmo kai na kanei o kathenas mas ayto pou mporei kai antexi pros kaliterefsi tou eaftoy toy, kai sigoura einai kalitera na zw sti disi poy antexw para na min eimai katholou muslim kai na eimai kafir.
Esena Anna mou mporei na einai to oneiro sou na ziseis se mia islamiki xwra ego den tha ithela na ziso ektos Elladas,kai prospatho na efarmozo to nomo tou Allah sti xwra pou meno kai na kano kalo stous allous anthropous kai na metafero to minima tou Allah dinontas ego proti to kalo paradeigma kai pistevo o Allah exei dialexei ton kathe ena apo mas gia ena skopo kai den dinei se kanenan varos perissotero apo afto pou mporei na antexei.
Efoson loipon zoume se aftes tis xwres kai dexomaste oti kalo mporei na mas prosferei to kratos kai apaitoume apo ayto pragmata opws tzami kai nekrotafeio den einai logiko na psifisoume kiolas?
Pws mporeis na apaiteis otan den theleis na symmetexeis se psifo?
Pws tha ginoun dektes oi apaitisis sou otan thes mono na pairneis kai to elaxisto pou sou zitaei to kratos,diladi h psifos sou,den thes na ti doseis?
Den ginetai praktika opos katalavaineis ayto poy les,diaforetika as meinoume opos eimaste kai as min apaitoume tipota oyte tzami oute ta ypoloipa dikaiomata mas.
Ego den thelo na pao se islamiki xwra giati protimo kai elpizo na fero to islam edw,me ti voithia toy Allah.
Amir, i will try and reply the 10 questions for Pierra, later in the night, inshallah.
Xenia
I was going to come back on the issue of the just ruler, my time is very limited with work, house and 3 children, and I had to reply 1am… But every time you bring up new issues, that definitely need clarification. Will attempt, later.
As for the capitals i used, do not be picky, was only in order to make it distinct from yours. No offence, please, I do not like violence either.
Dear Anna
thanks for reply. No need for further info. Time is short and precious for all of us. We said what we had to say. For me this matter is over and I am moving on. No point trying to out do each other. As Amir said this post has served its purpose. It is bad enough having people passing judgemenents against us with no or little knowledge of Islam.It is a totally different matter when Muslims disagree with Muslims. I take my leave. The only thing I will mention last is that: The Prophet PBUH used to trade with all including Jewish, he had a Jewish wife and he visited the Non believing when they were ill. I hope you understand.
Salam
Xenia