Comments on: Patriarch: ready to turn to the European court for human rights http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/12/patriarch-ready-to-turn-to-the-european-court-for-human-rights/ Connecting Greek Muslims - Connecting Rethinkers of Life Sun, 31 Jul 2011 12:00:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: sonjofsparta http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/12/patriarch-ready-to-turn-to-the-european-court-for-human-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-2543 sonjofsparta Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:25:24 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=3320#comment-2543 Yes Anna S, I did hear what the patriarch did say concerning no objection for the Athens mosque. Also I am aware that Turkey is not an Islamically ruled country. That does not mean the difficulties of the Greek minority in Turkey has to do with the secular nature of the state. Lets face it the Greeks and the Turks have been fighting one and other for over 500 years. The Turks have also been fighting with other 'Muslim' people as well including the Kurds. Also when Turkey was the Ottoman Empire, Christian Greeks may have had more religious freedom under the Turks but the had no political freedom because they were Christians. Look at after the collapse of Yugoslavia how the region of Bosnia became 'free' and all hell broke loose with religious boodshed and both Mosques and Churches being destroyed. In other words only strong laws and fear of law can keep the peace in the Balkans otherwise unfortunately its bloodshed. I don't believe a theocracy installed in Turkey will bring about any more peace than a socialist state or a purely 'secular' state. We as citizens in both countries have to learn to at the very least respect one and others religious differences, but we can't have religious freedom in one region and not the other. I also like to point out the irony of religious organizations going to the European 'secular' court to seek justice, seems not everything secular is 'bad' after all. Yes Anna S, I did hear what the patriarch did say concerning no objection for the Athens mosque. Also I am aware that Turkey is not an Islamically ruled country. That does not mean the difficulties of the Greek minority in Turkey has to do with the secular nature of the state. Lets face it the Greeks and the Turks have been fighting one and other for over 500 years. The Turks have also been fighting with other ‘Muslim’ people as well including the Kurds. Also when Turkey was the Ottoman Empire, Christian Greeks may have had more religious freedom under the Turks but the had no political freedom because they were Christians. Look at after the collapse of Yugoslavia how the region of Bosnia became ‘free’ and all hell broke loose with religious boodshed and both Mosques and Churches being destroyed. In other words only strong laws and fear of law can keep the peace in the Balkans otherwise unfortunately its bloodshed. I don’t believe a theocracy installed in Turkey will bring about any more peace than a socialist state or a purely ’secular’ state. We as citizens in both countries have to learn to at the very least respect one and others religious differences, but we can’t have religious freedom in one region and not the other. I also like to point out the irony of religious organizations going to the European ’secular’ court to seek justice, seems not everything secular is ‘bad’ after all.

]]> By: sonofsparta http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/12/patriarch-ready-to-turn-to-the-european-court-for-human-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-2541 sonofsparta Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:49:02 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=3320#comment-2541 I did notice what the Patriarch had said Anna S, and as you know I have brought up this theme before. I also believe it is not because Turkey is a secular state that the Christian Greeks are marginalized. Let's face it this mistrust of other's religion is because of countless generations of war. For those who argue that the Ottomans Turks gave their Greek subjects more freedom in the past fail to acknowledge that the Greeks since 1453 had very little political freedom under the Turks. Look at how after the collapse of Yugoslavia a 'free' Bosinian region has lead to countless religious bloodshed over there, with both Muslims and Christians destroying one and others shrines and places of worship. The problem with the Balkans is whenever one becomes 'free' it is usually at the expense of another. I do not believe that the answer is either a purely secular state, or a religious theocracy or a socilaist state. No mater what the political structure is in Greece or Turkey or the rest of the world for that matter, if humanity is to survive the vicious cylce of wars and political religious conflicts we must all (as people and nations) agree that is in everyone interests that all minorities are free to worship as they like so long as their religious interest does not interefer with that of the state. As Christ states, Ἀπόδοτε οὖν τὰ Καίσαρος Καίσαρι καὶ τὰ τοῦ Θεοῦ τῷ Θεῷ. If there is enough good will between the present day Turkish state and Greece, there is no reason why a compromise cannot be achieved for our religious minorities. I hope that the European 'secluar court' does have a significant impact on the situation to bring more stabilty and religious freedom between Athens and Ankara which will benefit both our religious minorites. I did notice what the Patriarch had said Anna S, and as you know I have brought up this theme before. I also believe it is not because Turkey is a secular state that the Christian Greeks are marginalized. Let’s face it this mistrust of other’s religion is because of countless generations of war. For those who argue that the Ottomans Turks gave their Greek subjects more freedom in the past fail to acknowledge that the Greeks since 1453 had very little political freedom under the Turks. Look at how after the collapse of Yugoslavia a ‘free’ Bosinian region has lead to countless religious bloodshed over there, with both Muslims and Christians destroying one and others shrines and places of worship. The problem with the Balkans is whenever one becomes ‘free’ it is usually at the expense of another. I do not believe that the answer is either a purely secular state, or a religious theocracy or a socilaist state. No mater what the political structure is in Greece or Turkey or the rest of the world for that matter, if humanity is to survive the vicious cylce of wars and political religious conflicts we must all (as people and nations) agree that is in everyone interests that all minorities are free to worship as they like so long as their religious interest does not interefer with that of the state. As Christ states, Ἀπόδοτε οὖν τὰ Καίσαρος Καίσαρι καὶ τὰ τοῦ Θεοῦ τῷ Θεῷ.

If there is enough good will between the present day Turkish state and Greece, there is no reason why a compromise cannot be achieved for our religious minorities. I hope that the European ’secluar court’ does have a significant impact on the situation to bring more stabilty and religious freedom between Athens and Ankara which will benefit both our religious minorites.

]]> By: Anna S http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/12/patriarch-ready-to-turn-to-the-european-court-for-human-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-2540 Anna S Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:22:42 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=3320#comment-2540 Of course we are aware of that, what you did not notice is that even the patriarch has no objection for the Athens mosque, and he respects Muslims. He feels in his country exactly as we do in our country, didn't you noticed? Or you think that Turkey is Islamically ruled country and this is why he has all these difficulties? Actually you must admit that this is a secular state and this is why he faces all these. Of course we are aware of that, what you did not notice is that even the patriarch has no objection for the Athens mosque, and he respects Muslims. He feels in his country exactly as we do in our country, didn’t you noticed?
Or you think that Turkey is Islamically ruled country and this is why he has all these difficulties? Actually you must admit that this is a secular state and this is why he faces all these.

]]> By: sonofsparta http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/12/patriarch-ready-to-turn-to-the-european-court-for-human-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-2538 sonofsparta Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:35:48 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=3320#comment-2538 Sorry wrong link try this, from 60 Minutes http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6001717n&tag=contentMain;contentBody Sorry wrong link try this, from 60 Minutes

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6001717n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

]]> By: sonofsparta http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/12/patriarch-ready-to-turn-to-the-european-court-for-human-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-2537 sonofsparta Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:32:30 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=3320#comment-2537 Here's another interesting tv news segment from 60 minutes. http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...in;contentBody Here’s another interesting tv news segment from 60 minutes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?…in;contentBody

]]> By: ImanK http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/12/patriarch-ready-to-turn-to-the-european-court-for-human-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-2536 ImanK Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:35:38 +0000 http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=3320#comment-2536 SonsOfSparta, where are you? I'm surprised I didn't see your comment yet. :-) SonsOfSparta, where are you? I’m surprised I didn’t see your comment yet. :-)

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