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	<title>Greeks Rethink &#187; freedom of religion</title>
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		<title>This whole burqa thing is getting out of control</title>
		<link>http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/10/this-whole-burqa-thing-is-getting-out-of-control/</link>
		<comments>http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/10/this-whole-burqa-thing-is-getting-out-of-control/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 10:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>ImanK</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Featured]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Islam]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Allah]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[burqa]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Canadian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Canadian Muslim Community]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Canadian Press]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[face beil]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[freedom of religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[French]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[government]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[hijab]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[liberalize]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Muslims]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[niqab]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[oppressed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[progressive Muslims]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[the Muslim Canadian Congress]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[veil]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=3120</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[


 
Canada has now caught on to this virus of wiping away the &#8217;freedom of religion&#8217; card in the name of &#8220;we want to liberate you&#8221;.  We don&#8217;t know you, we don&#8217;t want to know you, in fact, we wish you were wiped off of the face of the earth, but we want to &#8216;liberate&#8217; you. 
&#8220;The Muslim Canadian Congress [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a title="Women (I)." href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/23308355@N02/3375531562/" target="_blank"></a></p>
<p><a title="Woman with sneakers" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/72098626@N00/3149202064/" target="_blank"></a></p>
<p><a title="IMG_1763" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/95343000@N00/3984991555/" target="_blank"></a><a title="Islamic vibes" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/96679304@N00/249684362/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/83/249684362_4fff890e5f.jpg" border="0" alt="Islamic vibes" /></a></p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://news.ca.msn.com/canada/cbc-article.aspx?cp-documentid=22128929">Canada</a> has now caught on to this virus of wiping away the &#8217;freedom of religion&#8217; card in the name of &#8220;we want to liberate you&#8221;.  We don&#8217;t know you, we don&#8217;t want to know you, in fact, we wish you were wiped off of the face of the earth, but we want to &#8216;liberate&#8217; you. </p>
<blockquote><p><span style="color: #888888;"><strong>&#8220;</strong></span><a onclick="return Msn.Navigation.OpenNew(event,this)" href="http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/"><em><span style="color: #888888;"><strong>The Muslim Canadian Congress</strong></span></em></a><em><span style="color: #888888;"><strong> called on the federal government to prohibit the two garments in order to prevent women from covering their faces in public &#8211; a practice the group said has no place in a society that supports gender equality.&#8221;  (Excerpt, The Canadian Press, Toronto)</strong></span></em></p></blockquote>
<p>Who the heck is The Muslim Canadian Congress?  The Canadian Muslim community certainly hasn&#8217;t heard of them.  And when I checked out their website, it was no surprise to me that they were &#8220;progressive Muslims&#8221; a.k.a. Muslims who have no scholarly knowledge about Islam who want to erradicate the rulings of Allah in order to &#8220;liberalize&#8221; Muslims. </p>
<p>What makes me upset about this whole &#8216;burqa&#8217; issue is that&#8217;s it&#8217;s just all media propoganda.  I wish we would all just cut through the junk and say what&#8217;s really going on.  If a government is going to make a law that prohibits something, don&#8217;t they need substatial evidence? Hmm, let&#8217;s see.</p>
<ul>
<li><strong>How many <span style="color: #888888;"><em>authentic </em>Islamic scholars did they interview</span> to find out if the niqab is actually a religious tenant or cultural practice?</strong></li>
<li><strong>How many <span style="color: #888888;"><em>authentic</em> niqabis did they interview</span> to find out if they were forced to wear the niqab or do it because they believe it&#8217;s a religious practice?</strong></li>
<li><strong>How many <span style="color: #888888;">cases of &#8216;oppression due to forced niqab&#8217;</span> do they have recorded in the courts?</strong></li>
</ul>
<p>Hmm, let&#8217;s see&#8230;.. none, none and &#8230;&#8230; (surprise) none.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s not all.  The media is doing an excellent job of taking false statements and spreading them.   Do you really want to know what the <em>majority of the global Muslim community</em> thinks about this issue?  Here it goes:</p>
<p><strong>First of all, who the heck wears a burqa?!  No one, except for some women in Afghanistan.  That garment is part of their culture, not ours.  Religiously, the term is niqab, meaning face veil.  It is part of the religion of Islam.  Yes, I will say it again.  It is part of the religion of Islam.  It is not a cultural practice.  How do I know this?  The wives of Prophet Muhammad all wore it.  All authentic Islamic scholars will give you substantial evidence that it is a religious practice.  Is it compulsory for every women to wear it?  The majority of the scholars will say (based on proof that is outside of the scope of this article) that it is permissible to wear it but not compulsory.</strong></p>
<p>What will average Muslims tell you about the niqab?  They will say that the hijab is compulsory but the niqab is not and they do not prefer the niqab for themselves.  However, they wholeheartedly understand the proofs that it is permissible in Islam to wear and those who choose to wear it have the &#8220;freedom of religion&#8221; to do so. </p>
<p>It is very, very rare to find niqabis who are forced to wear it.  All the niqabis I&#8217;ve met wear it because they want to and because they believe it&#8217;s a religious practice and they do it out of their own free will.  All of them feel liberated by doing it.   These people are your average citizens who are peaceful and caring neighbours, who care about the betterment of their children, their society and their country.   They just happen to wear an extra piece of  1&#8242;x1&#8242; of fabric around their face.</p>
<p><strong>So, again, Canadian government, French government, why in the world are you oppressing our sisters?</strong></p>
<p><strong></strong></p>
<p><strong></strong></p>
<p><strong><em><span style="color: #888888;">Note:  Update</span></em></strong></p>
<p><span style="color: #888888;">CAIR-CAN publishes an official press release on the issue of the Canadian ban of the niqab:</span></p>
<p><span style="color: #888888;">Statement by Canadian Islamic Scholars and Mainstream Muslim Organizations Reaffirms Freedom of Religious Expression<br />
</span><a href="http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=3056_0_2_0_C"><span style="color: #888888;">http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=3056_0_2_0_C</span></a></p>
<p><strong></strong></p>


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		<title>Special report: Greek Parliament member pushes religious freedom for Muslims</title>
		<link>http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/special-report-greek-parliament-member-pushes-religious-freedom-questions-for-muslims/</link>
		<comments>http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/special-report-greek-parliament-member-pushes-religious-freedom-questions-for-muslims/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[Διαβάστε στα ελληνικά.

Parliament member Mr. Periklis Korovesis from the Syriza party lodged a formal question [about religious freedom] to the Greek Parliament, in particular the Ministers of Internal Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Education and Religions, National Defence. (Please view the seven questions at the end of this report.)
 
 
 
 

Subject: Muslim Cemetery and Mosque in Attica
In Athens, where [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div id="result_box" style="text-align: left;" dir="ltr">Διαβάστε στα <a href="http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/%ce%bc%ce%bf%cf%85%cf%83%ce%bf%cf%85%ce%bb%ce%bc%ce%b1%ce%bd%ce%b9%ce%ba%ce%bf-%ce%bd%ce%b5%ce%ba%cf%81%ce%bf%cf%84%ce%b1%cf%86%ce%b5%ce%af%ce%bf%cf%85-%ce%ba%ce%b1%ce%b9-%cf%84%ce%b5%ce%bc%ce%ad/?preview=true&amp;preview_id=1683&amp;preview_nonce=44a792c8ef" target="_self">ελληνικά</a>.</div>
<p><strong><img class="alignleft" src="http://voices.gr/wp-content/uploads/_korovesis_periklis_0709.jpg" alt="" width="201" height="281" /></strong></p>
<p><em>Parliament member Mr. Periklis Korovesis from the Syriza party lodged a formal question [about religious freedom] to the Greek Parliament, in particular the Ministers of Internal Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Education and Religions, National Defence. (Please view the seven questions at the end of this report.)</em></p>
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<p><strong></strong></p>
<p><strong>Subject: Muslim Cemetery and Mosque in Attica</strong></p>
<p><strong>In Athens, where 700 000 Muslims of all nationalities live, there is neither a mosque nor a Muslim cemetery, making Greece the only country in Europe that has not taken care of this.  This practice opposes Article 13 of the Constitution and Article 9 of the European Convention for the Human Rights that clearly state &#8220;the freedom of religious conscience is unhindered&#8221;.</strong></p>
<p>Understandably, the Muslims in Athens feel the sense of rejection as they have no ability to pray, get married, and have a funeral service with dignity.  As a result, this brought the existence of over 50 unofficial praying places in the region, often located in undergrounds and garages.</p>
<p>Just recently, the Prefecture of Athens fined the owner of an underground building at Nea Ionia 60 000 euro and 30 000 euro because he used it as an unofficial mosque without special permission of a &#8220;bethel&#8221;, allowing Muslims of the area to pray there.</p>
<p>There were significant local protests from the immigrants who opposed the prefecture as well as Greek inhabitants and authorities, demonstrating on Saturday February 7<sup>th</sup> at a massive movement in this small area (more than 1000 people) asking for a proper place to conduct religious tasks, which is a right registered by the constitution. </p>
<p>However, the decision of the prefecture and the reactions on behalf of the immigrants is not new.  Thirty years have passed since the first claim in 1976 was lodged for building a mosque in Athens from the Arabic embassies, when all Greek governments projected several barriers in order not to proceed to its fulfillment.</p>
<p><strong>Meanwhile, in other countries like Sweden, there are five mosques, 150 praying places and 10 Muslim cemeteries; in France there are 2000 praying places and 12 mosques when the cemeteries (except for one Muslim cemetery established in 1930) where it is obliged to have place of burying Muslims; in Norway (Oslo) the mosque was established in 1980, in Poland (Gtansk) in 1989, in Russia (Moscow) in 1912, in Scotland (Glascow) in 1983, in Portugal (Lisbon) in 1988, in Malta in 1978, in Ireland (Dublin) in 1978, in the UK there is the biggest Muslim cemetery in Europe and many mosques.</strong></p>
<p>In 1983 the Greek state was committed to construct a mosque in Marousi, but this did not work due to the reactions of the local authorities. In 2000 the law 2833 was including the establishment if an Islamic Cultural Centre and Mosque in Peania with expenses that the Saudi Arabian Government would cover. This project was cancelled and in the very same place they realized that was already been built an orthodox church!</p>
<p>In October 2006 the Ministry of Education presented a draft law for building a mosque at Eleonas, a feasible project in harmony with the protected green of the area. The decision remained inapplicable because at the area that was given for the mosque is located navy base and the transfer of that means that 5 000 000 euro should be found. Although the Muslim Community was willing to offer that amount, this offer was not accepted, for it is the obligation of the Ministry of Defense to provide the funds to the Navy.</p>
<p><strong>The Muslim Association of Greece sent a recent letter (27.01.09) to the Minister of Education and Religions asking to fulfil the governmental commitments and accusing the ministry&#8217;s palinodes twice for losing the necessary documents for the realization of this project.</strong></p>
<p>Similar luck seems to have the permanent claim of the Muslims for the establishment of the Muslim cemetery in Athens, for which we have lodged a question (number of lodgment 1334/15.7.2009).</p>
<p>Despite of the bestowal of the field at the area of Schisto for the establishment, and the commitments of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that was authorized as a coordinator of the engaged authorities, no procedure has proceeded. Hence, since the Muslims of Attica have no official mosque, nor  a cemetery, nor a religious scholar who will be under a law to practice their religious rituals, they are forced to move their dead to Thrace or abroad with a huge economic cost for the family, that rates even 5000 euro (for Pakistan).</p>
<p>For the construction of the Muslim cemetery in Schisto, the Muslim Association of Greece has sent a letter again to the Minister of Internal Affairs on 27.01.2009, asking for intervention, as far as the bureaucratic procedures of the local authorities are concerned for the following reasons:</p>
<ul>
<li> All these are unprecedented for an elemental democratic country and equals to &#8220;Islamophobia&#8221; and discrimination if the Islamic civilization;</li>
<li>The pertinacious non-immigration policy of the governments has created a suffocating place of living for Muslim immigrants and refuges that are in Greece, insulting fundamental and obvious human rights of every civilised country;</li>
<li>The immigration stream of the last decade has definitively changed the face and composition of the Greek society affecting even its deeper structures, transforming it to multicultural and religious differentiation, which in fact compels changes in point of vision, criteria and methods.</li>
</ul>
<p> The ministers are asked:</p>
<blockquote>
<ol>
<li>What is the status of the procedures for the construction of the Eleonas mosque and what are the obstacles of moving the navy base, the cost of the moving etc.</li>
<li>Have the funds been found by the Ministry of National Defense for the move of the navy base from the area of Eleonas?</li>
<li>In which point are the procedures for the establishment of the Muslim cemetery in Shisto? Is the topographic survey of the area that was expected to be completed within a two months period starting from July 2008, according to the response that was given to us by the Deputy Minister of foreign affairs Theodoros Kassimis?</li>
<li>Has the transfer of the proprietary title of the area been made by the Church of Greece to the local authority in charge of the Muslim cemetery?</li>
<li>Are the procedures of the Ministry of Zoning and Public Works finished as concerning the zoning of the cemetery area?</li>
<li><strong>How do they think to improve the conditions of religious freedom and equity, having in mind the condition that has prevailed in Greece and in Europe, in order to reduce the distance that separates our country from the rest of Europe?</strong></li>
<li><strong>Which constitutional preconditions they think to create will allow all religious communities to enjoy the internationally acknowledged equity of rights and parity for the religious rights?</strong></li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
<p>Athens, March 26, 2009</p>
<p>Member of Parliament</p>
<p>Periklis Korovesis</p>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
<p> </p>
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		<title>&#8220;Freedom or death&#8221;, Greeks called. Well, practise what you preach.</title>
		<link>http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/freedom-or-death-greeks-called-well-practise-what-you-preach/</link>
		<comments>http://www.greeksrethink.com/2009/03/freedom-or-death-greeks-called-well-practise-what-you-preach/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>ImanK</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Featured]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Alexander the Great]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheist]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Buddhist]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[freedom of religion]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greeksrethink.com/?p=1656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ 
I&#8217;ve been itching to rant about this.  When they called &#8220;freedom or death&#8221; in the War of Independence, well, just what kind of freedom was it?  It&#8217;s quite ironic that Greeks are known to be freedom fighters but then when Greek Muslims want the freedom to practise their religion, they can&#8217;t.
It just doesn&#8217;t make sense.
Come home [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <a title="Putra Mosque Sunset HDR-ed" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/88575173@N00/3370297490/" target="_blank"><img class="alignleft" style="border: 0px;" src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3461/3370297490_e805040863_m.jpg" border="0" alt="Putra Mosque Sunset HDR-ed" /></a><br />
<strong>I&#8217;ve been itching to rant about this.  When they called &#8220;freedom or death&#8221; in the War of Independence, well, just what kind of freedom was it?</strong>  It&#8217;s quite ironic that Greeks are known to be freedom fighters but then when Greek Muslims want the freedom to practise their religion, they can&#8217;t.</p>
<p>It just doesn&#8217;t make sense.</p>
<p>Come home pregnant, a Buddhist or an atheist and everything&#8217;s fine.  Come home a Muslim  &#8212; actually, just don&#8217;t come home &#8212; because you are not part of our family anymore!</p>
<p><strong>What happened to freedom?</strong></p>
<p>Oh, and this is the biggest confusion for me.  You are Greek only if you are baptized in the church as a Greek Orthodox.  <em>(And therefore, the only people who have the right to freedom are those who fit in this definition?) </em>Hmmm. </p>
<p><strong>So, is a Greek Buddhist a Greek?</strong></p>
<p><strong>What about a Greek atheist?</strong></p>
<p><strong>Or, the Greeks who lived on this earth before Jesus?</strong></p>
<p><strong>Are they Greeks?</strong></p>
<p><strong>What about Alexander the Great? </strong></p>
<p><strong>Is he Greek?</strong></p>
<p><strong>Or Zeus?</strong></p>
<p>So, you&#8217;re saying that Zeus shouldn&#8217;t have had the freedom to practise his religion because he wasn&#8217;t baptized in the church?  Who made up this ludicrous definition anyway?  Or does the definition of a Greek change based on the whims and desires of a few people?</p>
<p>I call it selective freedom.  Well, I have news for you.</p>
<p><strong><a title="woman in yellow" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/57498517@N00/180013541/" target="_blank"><img class="alignright" style="border: 0px;" src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/66/180013541_81826881cf_m.jpg" border="0" alt="woman in yellow" /></a>Greek people are waking up.  They see that what they are learning in Greek school or Religion class is not accurate at best and down-right biased or false at worst.</strong>  You can only condition a child so much these days until they figure out what the internet is and start reading accurate information about history and religion. <a title="bintang walk, kuala lumpur" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/57459794@N00/64226377/" target="_blank"></a></p>
<p><strong>It&#8217;s interesting that most atheists are coming out of Christianity.</strong>  You have to wonder why.  People have questions and many times, Christianity is not answering them.  Now, I completely respect every type of person, regardless of what religion he/she professes.  And I will treat them with respect. </p>
<p>God gave everyone a brain to study and the freedom to choose what they want to believe.  <strong>BUT LET THEM CHOOSE.</strong>  You might not understand their choice, but respect it.</p>
<p><strong>We have questioned.  We have reasoned.  We have investigated.  Thoroughly. And we found the truth &#8211; Islam.</strong></p>
<p>This is how we want to live in peace with our Creator, peace with ourselves and peace with society.  This is our freedom and no one can take that away from us.  Call that the Greek in us or the Muslim in us, but we are free.  Free from worshipping humans.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a title="bintang walk, kuala lumpur" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/57459794@N00/64226377/" target="_blank"></a><a title="woman in yellow" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/57498517@N00/180013541/" target="_blank"></a></p>


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