Greek Defence Minister Venizelos to the Muslim community: behold the mosque and cemetery

Source:  inews.gr

© Translation Muslim Association of Greece

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The way has opened for the construction of the mosque in Votanikos and the creation of a Muslim cemetery in Shisto, after a meeting held between the Mayor of Athens Nikitas Kaklamanis and the Minister of National Defense Evangelos Venizelos. The problem is that the “path” will pass – if it does – through the middle of the Naval Base, cutting it essentially in two and having already caused “frustration” in the Navy, as beyond the procedural issues, the cost is also high. The Navy, of course, cannot do anything enough though they are annoyed, as it has already been agreed by Mr. Venizelos and Mr. Kaklamanis.

The two sides have also come to an agreement regarding the creation of a green park, area of 500acres, in Goudi. The Minister of National Defence has given instructions for the actions needed, as we mentioned above, the land for the construction of the mosque belongs to the Navy and the launch of solutions for both issues. If this happens then a major problem concerning the Muslim community in Athens will be solved.

We remind that discussions had taken place in 2006 as well as a year ago. Then the matter of direct implementation of governmental commitments to build mosque in Athens and a Muslim cemetery in Shisto was brought back by the Muslim Association of Greece.

The President of the Association, Naim Elghandour, had sent letters to the relevant Ministers of Interior and Education Prokopis Pavlopoulos and Aris Spiliotopoulos, requesting the immediate breakout of procedures required.

According to the information then, the president of the Association had stated that due to the obstruction of the Greek state, Muslims find the opportunity to create informal places of worship “with the difference that they do not have as central reference the harmonious coexistence of people and the good of Greece, but promote their own aspirations for their own benefit.”

For the records Mr. Naim Elghandour, the man who played a major role in the Quran story is Egyptian in origin. He lives in Greece for the past 35 years and is naturalized as Greek citizen. As he stated in an interview, “The Muslim Association of Greece is the largest Muslim union in Greece. Our members are Greek nationals, immigrants and refugees coming mainly from Arab countries. We also represent the majority of informal places of worship in Athens. In Athens today live hundreds of thousands of Muslims, from various professions and social statuses, while thousands of children study in Greek schools and universities.”

The Muslim Association states that today in Greece live roughly 1.000.000 Muslims – that is to say, 10% of the Greek population.  It is therefore understandable how important it is to resolve these issues. Particularly, regarding the creation of the first Muslim cemetery, according to information available, that particular land belongs to the Navy but is used by the Army. The municipality requested, the land to be transferred so that the first Muslim cemetery can be created as well as the installations for the combustion of dead; however they examine as an alternative the third cemetery.

Regarding the botanical area, today there operates the Central Marine Car Station, a 20 year old building. If, therefore, the area was freed, the Navy and the Ministry of National Defence have requested the payment of the relocation costs, which makes it almost unaffordable. Regarding Goudi Park, the municipality has asked the Ministry to grant them 500 acres – from the 4500 total in this particular area – so, in cooperation with the Municipality of Zografou, the creation of a single green space. According to the municipality of Athens, that will create a green belt with bicycle paths, and the execution place of Nikos Belogiannis will be designated.

 

Translated by: Elena Nikolova-Pouliasi

40 Europeans in Kuwait to get to know Islam

Representatives of our Greek team from Greeks Rethink and the Muslim Association of Greece were able to attend this conference.  More updates to come later insha Allah.

© Translation: Muslim Association of Greece

 

Source: islammemo

The Kuwait-European new Muslims meeting started on Saturday evening (28-2-2010) in Kuwait which will continue until March 12, with the participation of 40 European who newly announced their conversion to Islam,  so they can  learn more about the Islamic religion through a series of lectures by a number of preachers.

Jamal Al Nouri, the official for the Islam Presentation Committee, said the Committee aims to qualify those newly European Muslims to be advocates of Islam in their home countries and convey the message of Islam among non-Muslims.

He explained that the Committee relies on them a lot and is keen to establish forums and meetings and lectures for them, referring that this meeting/forum has involvement of the lecturers and scientists from within Kuwait and from outside Kuwait.

 

Misconceptions

Amal Abed-Alwahed, the forum coordinator, said that the forum is a big meeting to discuss ways to communicate with each other and to remove the misconceptions about Islam.

She emphasized that the Committee since it was established in the seventies of the last century set a vision of a clear methodology to strive to achieve this vision and by the grace of God Almighty they made remarkable achievements.

She noted that the Committee was able to make Kuwait in the ranks of a dawah/preaching country as they are keen to communicate with each other and not to impact with, in addition to careful to show the truth and the tolerant image of Islam among non-Muslims.

 

Translated by Fadi Hasweh

Criminal in Greece: Muslim with the Quran

Source: Proto Thema

 A member of a gang of burglars and stolen goods receiver was finally proven to be a young Syrian that had accused a police officer to rip his Quran an step on it last May. There were serious incidents as a result of this accusation in the center of Athens by Muslims and a serious turbulence from the police.  

The 27year old Hasan Ramsy was convicted a few days ago to 10 months imprisonment because he was selling stolen goods. The Quran that he was holding however orders clearly, “Do not steal”…

 

After serious information, there was a police swoop in the underground apartment that Hamzy was living with another Syrian and they bumped into a …treasure. Jewels, watches, mobile phones, electronic devices and other valuable objects were found, that were stolen by a gang of burglars from houses and apartments in the north suburbs of Athens.

During the examination, the 27 Syrian denied that he was in the gang but he claimed that he bought the goods by an unknown man without knowing they were stolen.

His allegation did not convince the court that gave him 10 months imprisonment with a three year parole period, for “accepting and supplying products of crime” while the investigations of the police are continuing to track the gang of burglars.

 

He left at night…

After the end of the trial, Hamzy was left free and he returned to his country as they stated at “Thema” his co-patriots from the Aghios Panteleimonas area, but also the president of the Muslim Association of Greece, Mr. Naim Elghandour, has no better opinion for the 27year old man. “I know that he wanted to leave from Greece. He contacted me and said that he wants to return back to Syria. Generally he was weird. He was hanging around in strange neighborhoods and he was arrested for forged papers. I told him to be careful. He asked me for money to leave Greece but I found out later that he wanted to take advantage of me,” Mr. Elghandour stated.

 

He attempted to legalize himself with forged documents

Hasan Hamzy abandoned Greece just as he came. Illegally. He had stated on a TV show that he came illegally to Samos from Turkey in 2002 and after that he came to Athens. In 2003 he applied for his documents to become legal, when government Simitis had those measures, but stating that he was Iraqi by the name Mohammed Attiq and not Syrian. Last May, a policeman that was participating at an operation-broom at Aghios Panteleimonas at the center of Athens stopped Hamzy to check his papers. According to what the young man stated, the policeman ripped pages from the Quran that he had on him and then he stepped on it swearing.

As a result, there was a reaction by a large Muslim immigrant population that lives in Athens and for two days of serious incidents that were provoked from fanatics who damaged vehicles and stores, and there were also injuries. The Muslim Association of Greece and their president Naim Elghandour condemned those incidents then while they applied a law suit against the policeman who offended the holy book of millions of people worldwide.

Mr. Elghandour underlines that some people deliberately attempted to make Hamzy a hero. “Then at the incidents they attempted to make him a hero but the Muslim Association did not allow that to happen. The incidents were incited and we did not allow Athens to burn once again. What we did and proved that we care for this country, is take a law suit against any responsible person, to put responsibility –if there are to the policeman who ripped the Quran. We are waiting the case to go to trial,” he states.

 

Group urges Muslims to avoid body scans

Source:  CBC.ca

 

An Islamic group is urging Muslim travellers to choose to be patted down by airport security rather than go through airport body scanners, a practice that it says violate religious and privacy rights.

The Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) said the scanners, which produce a three-dimensional outline of a person’s naked body, are “against the teachings of Islam, natural law and all religions and cultures that stand for decency and modesty.”

“It is a violation of clear Islamic teachings that men or women be seen naked by other men and women,” the group said in a statement last week.

“The Qur’an has commanded the believers, both men and women, to cover their private parts. Human beings are urged to be modest in their dress,” the group said.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations also issued a statement of support of the FCNA’s recommendation.

The United States began using the scanners capable of detecting items hidden underneath clothing at airports as part of new security protocols put in place in the wake of the failed bombing attempt on a Detroit-bound flight on Christmas Day.

 

Canada installing scanners

Halifax imam Dr. Jamal Badawi, one of 10 Muslim scholars on the council who made the religious ruling, said the only exception to the rules of modesty are medical necessity or another emergency.

“It has to be a clear and compelling case and only to the extent that it is absolutely needed,” said Badawi. “And that doesn’t seem to apply to these scanning machines.”

Canada is also in the process of installing 44 scanners to be used on U.S.-bound passengers selected for secondary screening at Canadian airports.

The Canadian Air Transport Security Authority has said the scanners would protect the privacy of the passenger, and that the officer viewing the image would do so in a separate room and never see the actual traveller.

Only people singled out for extra screening would be scanned, and they would have the option of getting a physical search instead, according to authorities on both sides of the border.

The Fiqh council, which in 2005 issued an Islamic legal ruling, or fatwa, against terrorism and religious extremism, said it appreciated the pat-down search option and recommended Muslims choose this option.

 

U.S. puts countries on watch list

Canada has not adopted the U.S. approach of requiring additional screening for anyone flying into the U.S. who is a citizen of or is travelling from any of the 14 countries deemed to be state supporters of terrorism or “of interest” to the U.S.

Most of the countries listed are predominantly Muslim, and civil liberties groups say the policy of targeting travellers from specific countries opens the door to discriminatory racial profiling.

Transport Minister John Baird has said that “100 per cent” of Canadian travellers bound for the United States could be subjected to secondary screening.

The focus on security measures stems from the failed attempt by a Nigerian man to set off a bomb on a flight from Amsterdam to Detroit on Christmas Day.

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, is accused of trying to ignite the bomb on the Northwest Airlines flight. Officials said he has told U.S. investigators he received training and instructions from al-Qaeda operatives in Yemen.

Elena, the Muslim, the mosque and cemetery

Source:  Protagon.gr

© Translation: Muslim Association of Greece

Διαβάστε στα Eλληνικά

I have never met Elena in person. We have been talking on the phone for the past two months. She has a bright smile, nice voice and is very polite. She is 23 years old studying Business in England. The only thing I knew about her is that she was wearing hijab. She started learning about Islam from stubbornness. She wanted to prove to her colleagues at university that they were wrong.  She studied the Quran quickly to gain more arguments against it, but that made her change her own beliefs and religion.

The last emails we exchanged were regarding the French ban of religion symbols. Elena wanted to point out two things regarding that, the cemeteries and the worship places. I am copying what she wrote to me.

“Greece is the only European country that does not have a cemetery and a mosque.  I am a Greek citizen and I pay tax as every other citizen in the country, I obey its laws, I defend its rights when they are correct. What hurts me is the behaviour of the reliable people regarding that matter. What we are asking for is to praise God in its place, to marry and die next to our families as every other human being on that planet.”

 ”The Muslims in Greece are a minority but not only in Thrace, the northern part of Greece, but also in Athens where they are almost 700.000 Muslims working and living. But except the everyday problems they have to deal with, they also have to consider what will happen with their bodies when they will die. And this is because in the European Athens today there is no cemetery, a basic need for a human being and especially a Muslim. And this is because in the Islamic tradition the body must be buried no more than 24 hours after death and under some conditions. Something that Muslims in Athens today cannot even think or dream of. Nowadays the bodies are sent to Thrace or to the country of origin, if that is possible.  What happens though with the many Greek Muslims or with the second generation children that do not know any other country except Greece? Don’t they have that ‘luxury’ or they are excluded from the life circle.”

Greece: the Church, the Mosque and the lost vote

Source:  Enet.gr

By Thomas Tsatsis

© Translated by the Muslim Association of Greece

Διαβάστε στα Ελληνικά

Ten years ago, when the issue of the identity cards and the indication of the religion was hot, the former bishop of Alexandroupolis – Anthimos was supporting the position of the official Church in an…unorthodox way.

Referring to a fact that was never clarified if it had a real existence, the bishop was saying that about 70  Muslims that were living in the wider region of Alexandroupolis had asked a “voting paper” to sign their claim to mention religion on the ID cards.

This is the same bishop that gave a battle after – out of solidarity – against the Muslim mosque at Peania, as was ordered by the law that was voted by the parliament.

And now he starts a new battle against the law that gives Hellenic nationality to the immigrants who many of them are Muslims. With a simple argument: “The Church was not asked about that. You can’t bring 700 thousands Muslims in the country and make them Greeks without even asking the Church.”

The Thessaloniki bishop (Anthimos), whatever they charge on him, one must admit that he knows about politics. The governments many times are acting according to the perception of the “lost vote” from the “side-church” that prevails inside the hierarchy. That means that the bishop will shout from the pulpit, the Christian crowd will be terrified, the MPs will feel pressures and they will transfer this to their parties to convey the message.

Thus with the populism of the opposition party and with the fear of the vote that can be lost, the government goes backwards and turns 180 degrees. The issue of the identity cards confirms the above. There were only two or three MPs and ministers of PASOK during 2000-2004 that defended the omitting of the religion from the identity cards publically. The rest had disappeared in order not to be indicated as opponents of the Church.

Four years now the governments do not take over the political cost of the construction of the Mosque at Eleonas as mentions the law of New Democracy government of 2006. But they are also scared to proceed to the construction of the Muslim cemetery in a field that the Church has bestowed! Yes, of the Church!

The government has not many choices. Either they will proceed immediately and solve the problem of the thousands of immigrants – and not only – Muslims that live in Attica and will confront a part of hierarchy in front and behind stage, or they will confront issues that cannot solve.

The scattered mosques-warehouses that are more than 100 in Attica are not under any control. Whatever is heard by “imams” that are self-announced small “prophets” many times are dangerous and cannot be confronted by the police. The legitimacy, the operation of one or more mosques with rules and conditions, official, with moderate imams and not with competing “Mujahidins”, can be a start.

Unless the government is waiting to finish first with the law for the immigrants and after that to take counsel with the Church. And just the day before yesterday the Hoy Synod stated that they believe that the law for the nationalities does not coincide totally with the immigration problem and that the government should consider the opinions of the bishops.

Bishops that “on one hand they preserve the teachings of Christ for love to everyone, on the other hand they do not know the partial national and social sensitivities, thus their opinions should be co-calculated to face such crucial matters.” This is the Holy Synod whose president is Archbishop Ieronymos.

Prayer with an innovated water-saving device

Source: Enet.gr

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A Malaysian company has invented a device that, as they claim, will help Muslims to make their cleansing before their prayers without spending too much water.

The “green” device is accompanied by automatic sensors and sinks that interrupt the water flow during  “wudu” – a word with Arabic origin that indicates the procedure that the face, hands and feet of the faithful are cleansed before the prayer.

The ritual of ablution is preceded by the five prayers that a Muslim is obliged to perform.

Today in the world there are 1.7 billion Muslims who mainly live in Africa and Middle East, which are areas with weak water resources.

The device has height of 1.65cm and it recites also Quranic verses. It uses only 1.3 liters of water and it is better than the old traditional methods where tabs are left to run during the entire ablution of the faithful that can last a few minutes.

“During Hajj (Mecca pilgrimage) two million people were spending 50 million liters of water for wudu. If they use this device they will save 40 million liters per day,” states the chairman of AACE Technologies Antony Gomez.

The investors of the company are very optimistic that the rich Muslim countries will obtain this machine that will be available in six months and costs 3-4000 dollars.

Dubai already has expressed interest to obtain this device for the airport, Gomez stated, adding that this machine needed two years to be completed and costs 2.5 million dollars.

Question to the parliament for mosque and cemetery by MP Gr.Psarianos

MP of SYRIZA party, Grigoris Psarianos applied yesterday a formal question to the Parliament about the construction of the official mosque and the Muslim cemetery, as this issue seems to be forgotten once again.

Below you can read the entire question

 

 

Διαβάστε στα Ελληνικά

Question To Ministers

• National Defense  
• Education, Life Learning and Religions
• Internal Affairs, Decentralization and Electronic Governing
• Infrastructure Transportations and Networks

 

Subject: “Construction of Muslim mosque and construction of Muslim cemetery”

The Muslim immigrants that live in our country are estimated to be about 700-800 thousand and most of them live in Attica. According to their biggest organization, the Muslim Association of Greece, despite the fact that they do not face problems with the Greek citizens, the same does not happen with the Greek State, which seems to totally ignore their community.

The proof is in the long procrastination of the Hellenic state to fulfill two major issues of the Muslim community: the construction of an official mosque and of a Muslim cemetery in the Attica region.

Today in Athens there are only unofficial praying places, about 100, and the Arabs, Pakistanis, Bangladesh and Kurds that are the majority of the Muslim immigrants. The Muslims from other nationalities pray at the places of the Arab community.

The places are undergrounds, garages, stores, some are neat and others in a miserable situation, depending on the potential of every group. Also in Athens there is not a Muslim cemetery, nor a section for Muslim burial.

Some deceased are transferred to their countries of origin, if this is possible, as it is very costly. Others have no homeland to bury [their dead] as the Palestinians.

The construction of a mosque is described in two laws. The first was by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 2004 describing the construction of a worship place for the Muslims at Peania.

But this plan was abandoned after the reactions of the residents of the area and the Church as well. The second law was voted on in 2006 and described the construction of the mosque at Eleonas.

Also, according to a briefing to Muslim Association of Greece by the special Secretary of Religions Ministry when the minister was Evr.Stylianides, there was a disbursement of 15 million euro for the construction of the mosque taken by the State expenditure treasury, as the law of 2006 describes, and that the only delay was the relocation of the supermarket of the navy base from this area, something that was under the authority of the Ministry of National Defense.

With a relative question from Syriza PM Pericles Korovesis, on March 2009 to three ministries, the National Defense Minister replies that on August 2008 there had been sent to the Ministry of Education and Religions, “document that are mentioned the possible locations that the mosque can be constructed at the Navy Base of Votanikos, as well as the financial demands for relocation of the activities of the Navy to another area…”

The Ministry of National Defense and the navy headquarters are expecting the notification of the intentions from the Ministry of Religions. The Ministry of Environment and Zoning replied that “the issue of the Islamic mosque is being handled by the Ministry of Education and Religions.

And the Ministry of Education and Religions, refusing any responsibility, replies, “We are notifying you that the responsibility of the ministry lies only to the financial management of the Islamic mosque that starts after its construction.”

However, article 3 of Law 3512/2006 defines that, “the construction of the mosque will be done by the administration of Applying Educational Projects of the Ministry of Education and Religions and with expenses of the Program of State Investments.” Nevertheless the minister “washes its hands” while the first disbursement has been made.

A similar case stands with the construction of the Muslim cemetery. The Church has bestowed for this reason in 2005 a field of 30.000m² at the Shisto area. But according to the document of the ministry of internal affairs “after reservations that the Organization “Athena” expressed regarding the suitability of the place in question for the specific usage, from zoning and ground aspect, this case is reconsidered…”

After that on June of 2009 the Church states with a letter to the Minister of Environment and Zoning, Mr. Souflias, that this is a social necessity and moves to the next step. [It] bestows another field in the area and has already prepared and given the blueprint and asks the immediate response of the ministries. Until today the State has not responded.

 

Because of a multicultural Europe of today, Athens is the only European capital that has not taken care of a place of worship and burial of the Muslim population and because it is an issue of social acceptance and mutual respect  to the hundreds of thousands co-citizens, the ministers in charge are asked:

1. In which stage are the procedures for the construction of the mosque at Eleonas?
2. Which ministry is responsible for the funding of the relocation of the services of the navy that is operating in the area?
3. What happened to the 15 million euro that according to the Ministry of Education and Religions has been disbursed by the treasury for the expenses of the construction of the mosque?
4. Has a notary action been conducted between the Church and State, with which the specific field at Shisto is being bestowed for the construction of the Muslim cemetery? If not why is it delaying, while the church has all good intentions to proceed with this issue?
5. Which ministry coordinates the construction of the Muslim cemetery and when is it expected to conclude the works?

The parliamentarian that asks,

Grigoris Psarianos

See related posts by Enet and Zougla

My compatriots’ vote to ban minarets is fuelled by fear

Source: Enet.gr (Greek version) 

Source: Guardian  (English version)

Διαβάστε στα Ελληνικά

 

The Swiss have voted not against towers, but Muslims. Across Europe, we must stand up to the flame-fanning populists

 

An article of Tariq Ramadan

It wasn’t meant to go this way. For months we had been told that the efforts to ban the construction of minarets in Switzerland were doomed. The last surveys suggested around 34% of the Swiss population would vote for this shocking initiative. Last Friday, in a meeting organised in Lausanne, more than 800 students, professors and citizens were in no doubt that the referendum would see the motion rejected, and instead were focused on how to turn this silly initiative into a more positive future.

Today that confidence was shattered, as 57% of the Swiss population did as the Union Démocratique du Centre (UDC) had urged them to – a worrying sign that this populist party may be closest to the people’s fears and expectations. For the first time since 1893 an initiative that singles out one community, with a clear discriminatory essence, has been approved in Switzerland. One can hope that the ban will be rejected at the European level, but that makes the result no less alarming. What is happening in Switzerland, the land of my birth?

There are only four minarets in Switzerland, so why is it that it is there that this initiative has been launched? My country, like many in Europe, is facing a national reaction to the new visibility of European Muslims. The minarets are but a pretext – the UDC wanted first to launch a campaign against the traditional Islamic methods of slaughtering animals but were afraid of testing the sensitivity of Swiss Jews, and instead turned their sights on the minaret as a suitable symbol.

Every European country has its specific symbols or topics through which European Muslims are targeted. In France it is the headscarf or burka; in Germany, mosques; in Britain, violence; cartoons in Denmark; homosexuality in the Netherlands – and so on. It is important to look beyond these symbols and understand what is really happening in Europe in general and in Switzerland in particular: while European countries and citizens are going through a real and deep identity crisis, the new visibility of Muslims is problematic – and it is scary.

At the very moment Europeans find themselves asking, in a globalising, migratory world, “What are our roots?”, “Who are we?”, “What will our future look like?”, they see around them new citizens, new skin colours, new symbols to which they are unaccustomed.

Over the last two decades Islam has become connected to so many controversial debates – violence, extremism, freedom of speech, gender discrimination, forced marriage, to name a few – it is difficult for ordinary citizens to embrace this new Muslim presence as a positive factor. There is a great deal of fear and a palpable mistrust. Who are they? What do they want? And the questions are charged with further suspicion as the idea of Islam being an expansionist religion is intoned. Do these people want to Islamise our country?

The campaign against the minarets was fuelled by just these anxieties and allegations. Voters were drawn to the cause by a manipulative appeal to popular fears and emotions. Posters featured a woman wearing a burka with the minarets drawn as weapons on a colonised Swiss flag. The claim was made that Islam is fundamentally incompatible with Swiss values. (The UDC has in the past demanded my citizenship be revoked because I was defending Islamic values too openly.) Its media strategy was simple but effective. Provoke controversy wherever it can be inflamed. Spread a sense of victimhood among the Swiss people: we are under siege, the Muslims are silently colonising us and we are losing our very roots and culture. This strategy worked. The Swiss majority are sending a clear message to their Muslim fellow citizens: we do not trust you and the best Muslim for us is the Muslim we cannot see.

Who is to be blamed? I have been repeating for years to Muslim people that they have to be positively visible, active and proactive within their respective western societies. In Switzerland, over the past few months, Muslims have striven to remain hidden in order to avoid a clash. It would have been more useful to create new alliances with all these Swiss organisations and political parties that were clearly against the initiative. Swiss Muslims have their share of responsibility but one must add that the political parties, in Europe as in Switzerland have become cowed, and shy from any courageous policies towards religious and cultural pluralism. It is as if the populists set the tone and the rest follow. They fail to assert that Islam is by now a Swiss and a European religion and that Muslim citizens are largely “integrated”. That we face common challenges, such as unemployment, poverty and violence – challenges we must face together. We cannot blame the populists alone – it is a wider failure, a lack of courage, a terrible and narrow-minded lack of trust in their new Muslim citizens.

Tariq Ramadan, a Swiss citizen, is professor of contemporary Islamic studies at Oxford University. His most recent book is What I Believe

His official website is www.tariqramadan.com.

Οι μουσουλμάνοι ανήκουν στην Ευρώπη

Source:  Enet.gr

Translate this page: click on English at the top right of the homepage.

“Europe must come to terms with all sides and the wealth of history,” says Helier, which seeks to contribute to this process in his new book, which follows in the footsteps of the Muslim presence on the continent, noting that Muslim communities can only be regarded and treated-that is an integral part of European society.

  

Η Ευρώπη πρέπει να συμφιλιωθεί με όλες τις όψεις και τον πλούτο της Ιστορίας της, λέει ο Χέλιερ, που επιδιώκει να συνεισφέρει σε αυτή τη διαδικασία με το νέο βιβλίο του, στο οποίο παρακολουθεί τα χνάρια της μουσουλμανικής παρουσίας στην ευρωπαϊκή ήπειρο, επισημαίνοντας ότι οι μουσουλμανικές κοινότητες δεν μπορεί παρά να θεωρούν -και να θεωρούνται- ότι είναι αναπόσπαστο κομμάτι της ευρωπαϊκής κοινωνίας.

Γι’ αυτό διάλεξε τον τίτλο «Μουσουλμάνοι της Ευρώπης»; τον ρωτάω. «Ναι, έχουμε συνηθίσει να βλέπουμε τις μειοψηφίες σε σχέση με τις πλειοψηφίες μέσα σε μια κοινωνία. Εγώ ήθελα να δω μια μειοψηφία ως μέρος της πλειοψηφίας στην οποία ανήκει», εξηγεί. Συνεργάτης του Πανεπιστημίου του Γουόρικ, μέλος του Κέντρου της Οξφόρδης για τις Ισλαμικές Σπουδές στο Πανεπιστήμιο της Οξφόρδης και ειδικός σε θέματα θρησκευτικών μειονοτήτων, ο Χέλιερ υπήρξε σύμβουλος της βρετανικής κυβέρνησης πάνω σε θέματα καταπολέμησης του εξτρεμισμού και της ριζοσπαστικοποίησης, μετά το τρομοκρατικό χτύπημα του Ιουλίου του 2005 στο Λονδίνο.

«Οταν μιλάμε για μουσουλμάνους στην Ευρώπη είναι σαν να λέμε ότι βρίσκονται σε ευρωπαϊκό έδαφος, αλλά δεν είναι πραγματικά Ευρωπαίοι, απλώς έτυχε να είναι εδώ. Πολλές από τις κοινότητες που μελέτησα είχαν μεν πράγματι έρθει από κάπου αλλού, άλλες όμως βρίσκονται σε αυτήν την ήπειρο εδώ και πολλές γενιές. Μάλιστα ορισμένοι είναι απόγονοι Ευρωπαίων που έτυχε σε κάποια στιγμή της ζωής τους να ασπαστούν το Ισλάμ. Αυτές οι κοινότητες δεν απασχολούν τη δημοσιότητα, επειδή έχουν άλλη ιστορική μνήμη και διαφορετικό κοινωνικό και οικονομικό υπόβαθρο από τις πιο πρόσφατες μεταναστευτικές κοινότητες. Η μουσουλμανική παρουσία συγχέεται σε μεγάλο βαθμό με την εθνοτική και φυλετική ταυτότητα», λέει ο Χέλιερ.

Στο βιβλίο ασχολείστε και με τη μετανάστευση των τελευταίων ετών;

«Ναι, αλλά να κάνω μια παρατήρηση, ειδικά για τη χώρα μου – πολλοί από τους ανθρώπους που αποκαλούμε μετανάστες πρώτης ή δεύτερης γενιάς είναι απόγονοι υπηκόων της βρετανικής αυτοκρατορίας, οπότε είναι κάπως περίεργο να τους κατατάσσουμε στους πρόσφατους μετανάστες. Τώρα γενικώς στην Ευρώπη τα τελευταία δεκαπέντε χρόνια έχει αυξηθεί πολύ ο αριθμός των μουσουλμάνων μεταναστών. Αρκετοί, όμως, είναι εξαιρετικά ευκατάστατοι. Στην Ελβετία, για παράδειγμα, υπάρχει μια μεγάλη κοινότητα από νεοαφιχθέντες μουσουλμάνους. Κανείς δεν ανησυχεί για τη δική τους ομαλή ενσωμάτωση, γιατί η ενσωμάτωση είναι κάτι που μας απασχολεί -τουλάχιστον όπως φαίνεται στον δημόσιο διάλογο- όταν πρόκειται για τους οικονομικά ασθενείς».

Αναφέρετε πως οι μουσουλμανικές κοινότητες υπήρξαν εδώ και αιώνες μέρος της Ευρώπης και είναι υπερβολικές οι συζητήσεις περί ενσωμάτωσης. Γιατί όμως είναι επίμονες;

«Εχει ενδιαφέρον, ναι… Πρέπει να δούμε πώς υλοποιούνται οι πολιτικές ενσωμάτωσης σε κάθε ευρωπαϊκή χώρα ξεχωριστά. Στη Βρετανία βασίζονται στη φιλοσοφία μας περί διαφορετικότητας και πολυπολιτισμικότητας. Ζητήματα που αντιμετωπίζονται εντελώς διαφορετικά στη Γαλλία, τη Γερμανία και την Ελλάδα. Στη Βρετανία η συζήτηση γύρω από την ενσωμάτωση διαφορετικών κοινοτήτων, καθώς και το “μουσουλμανικό ζήτημα” προέκυψαν πολύ πρόσφατα, στη δεκαετία του ‘90. Είχε προηγηθεί μια μακρά ιστορία μετανάστευσης και πολυεθνικής συνύπαρξης που δεν αφορούσε ποτέ τη θρησκεία. Μόνο η φυλή και η εθνικότητα μετρούσαν».

Η θρησκεία πότε και γιατί έγινε μέρος της συζήτησης;

«Στην Ευρώπη -λιγότερο στη Νότια Ευρώπη- η ιδέα της εκκοσμίκευσης είναι πολύ βαθιά ριζωμένη στον τρόπο που οργανώνεται η δημόσια σφαίρα. Η θρησκευτική πίστη θεωρείται υπόθεση ιδιωτική. Είναι ενδεικτικό το γεγονός ότι ο Τόνι Μπλερ, άνθρωπος βαθιά θρησκευόμενος, όσο ήταν πρωθυπουργός δεν αναφερόταν στις θρησκευτικές πεποιθήσεις του. Οταν λοιπόν εμφανίζεται μια κοινότητα -όπως είναι η μουσουλμανική- που δεν αντιμετωπίζει την πίστη της σαν κάτι αυστηρά ιδιωτικό γιατί δεν βλέπει κανένα λόγο να το κάνει, τότε όταν τα μέλη αυτής της κοινότητας θα αρχίσουν να εκφράζουν τις ανησυχίες τους χρησιμοποιώντας τη γλώσσα της θρησκείας, αναπόφευκτα θα τραβήξουν την προσοχή. Παλιότερα θα τραβούσαν την προσοχή εξαιτίας των φυλετικών ή εθνοτικών χαρακτηριστικών τους. Καθώς άρχισε να αυξάνεται ο αριθμός τους και οι νέες γενιές άρχισαν να ιεραρχούν τη θρησκεία τους πάνω από την εθνική ταυτότητα των γονιών τους, εύκολα καταλαβαίνει κανείς πως η ιδέα του Ισλάμ και της μουσουλμανικότητας στο δημόσιο χώρο αναπόφευκτα θα τραβούσε την προσοχή».

Γιατί οι νεότερες γενιές μουσουλμάνων μεταναστών ιεράρχησαν τη θρησκεία πάνω από την εθνοτική καταγωγή τους;

«Πρόκειται για απολύτως φυσιολογικό κοινωνικό φαινόμενο. Κυρίως γιατί δεν μπορούσαν να αναγνωρίσουν τους εαυτούς τους στην εθνική ταυτότητα των γονιών τους, αφού μεγάλωναν σε άλλο τόπο. Ενώ μουσουλμάνος, όπως και χριστιανός, μπορεί κανείς να είναι οπουδήποτε. Γιατί αυτό συνέβη στους μουσουλμάνους και όχι στους Ιταλούς ή τους Ελληνες μετανάστες δεύτερης γενιάς; Γιατί οι Ιταλοί, όπως και οι Ελληνες και οι Γερμανοί είναι λευκοί. Ο,τι και να πω για τον ρόλο που παίζει το χρώμα, θα είναι λίγο».

Οι Ιρανοί και οι Τούρκοι μετανάστες δυσκολεύτηκαν λιγότερο να ενταχθούν επειδή η επιδερμίδα τους είναι ανοιχτόχρωμη;

«Πολλοί άλλαξαν τα ονόματά τους. Επειτα οι Ιρανοί μετανάστες είχαν πολύ υψηλό μορφωτικό επίπεδο και δεν ήταν καθόλου θρησκευόμενοι. Οι περισσότεροι από τους μουσουλμάνους μετανάστες προέρχονταν από την εργατική τάξη και από αγροτικές περιοχές. Και δεν μετανάστευσαν καν σε αγροτικές περιοχές της Ευρώπης. Αν μια κοινότητα από ένα χωριό του Μπανγκλαντές μετακινηθεί σε μια πόλη του Μπανγκλαντές θα υπάρξουν εντάσεις. Φανταστείτε πόσο εντονότερο είναι το πρόβλημα όταν η πόλη στην οποία μεταναστεύουν είναι ενδεχομένως σε μια χώρα που δυστυχώς, ιστορικά, δυσκολεύεται να χειριστεί τον πλουραλισμό – κάτι για το οποίο φοβάμαι ότι είναι διάσημη η ευρωπαϊκή ήπειρος. Με την έννοια ότι στην Ευρώπη συνέβη το Ολοκαύτωμα. Στην Ευρώπη είναι που έχουμε μεγάλη ιστορία διακρίσεων. Αυτό εξηγείται σ’ ένα βαθμό από το γεγονός ότι καθεμιά από τις ευρωπαϊκές εθνικές ταυτότητες είναι πολύ ομοιογενής. Δεν είναι όπως η αμερικανική, η αυστραλέζικη ή η καναδική ταυτότητα. Για να προαγάγουμε, σ’ ένα ιστορικό πλαίσιο όπως το ευρωπαϊκό, τον πλουραλισμό και την ανοχή στη διαφορετικότητα, πρέπει να φανούμε δημιουργικοί. Κάτι που συνέβη στη Βρετανία, όπου τώρα οι άνθρωποι αρχίζουν να αναφέρονται σε μια βρετανική εθνική ταυτότητα που δεν είναι φυλετικά προσδιορισμένη. Βλέπω όμως πολύ συχνά να προβάλλεται στην Ευρώπη η διαδικασία της ενσωμάτωσης μέσω κάποιων τρόπων που έχουν οι μουσουλμάνοι να εκφράζουν την ταυτότητά τους και τους οποίους ορισμένοι άνθρωποι μπορεί να θεωρούν προβληματικούς ως συμπεριφορές».

Ποιοι μπορεί να είναι αυτοί οι τρόποι;

«Για παράδειγμα, οι πολύ ευσεβείς μουσουλμάνοι -μια ελάχιστη μειοψηφία των μεταναστών- θέλουν να προσεύχονται πέντε φορές την ημέρα. Αν εργάζονται σε ένα εργοστάσιο ή μια επιχείρηση, ίσως ζητούν ένα χώρο για να εκτελούν το θρησκευτικό καθήκον τους. Αυτό μπορεί να ενοχλήσει τους συναδέλφους τους που δεν είναι θρησκευόμενοι, μπορεί ακόμη και να το θεωρούν αλλόκοτο. Ή μπορεί να το βλέπουν σαν απειλή στην τάξη και στον κοσμικό χαρακτήρα του δημόσιου χώρου, παρ’ όλο που πρόκειται για μια διαδικασία πολύ ιδιωτική».

Σ’ ένα κοσμικό κράτος, μια που το θέμα είναι επίκαιρο, τα θρησκευτικά σύμβολα έχουν θέση στο σχολείο;

«Οπως η μαντίλα, που έχει εξελιχθεί σε τεράστιο ζήτημα; Πιστεύω ότι τίποτε δεν ενοχλεί το κοσμικό καθεστώς περισσότερο από τη μαντίλα. Σε ορισμένες χώρες τη βλέπουν σχεδόν σαν απειλή προς την κοσμική βάση του κράτους. Κανείς δεν αμφισβητεί τον κοσμικό χαρακτήρα των ευρωπαϊκών κρατών. Αλλά τι είδους κοσμικό κράτος θέλουμε; Εννοώ ότι μπορεί να μη συμφωνώ με τις γυναίκες που φορούν μαντίλα, αλλά γιατί να τους επιβάλω μια προσωπική γνώμη; Χαίρομαι πολύ που στη Βρετανία δεν πήραμε κανένα ανάλογο μέτρο απαγόρευσης. Οι Γάλλοι έχουν εντελώς διαφορετική αντίληψη, γιατί το σχολείο συνιστά το εργαστήριο για τη δημιουργία αυτού του μυθικού Γάλλου πολίτη. Και σε ένα τέτοιο εργαστήριο δεν χωρούν θρησκευτικά σύμβολα. Νομίζω ότι πρόκειται για τεράστιο σφάλμα που έχει αποτέλεσμα να απαιτείται τελικά πολύ περισσότερος χρόνος για την ενσωμάτωση, διότι στενεύει τα περιθώρια των μουσουλμάνων να εκτελούν τα θρησκευτικά τους καθήκοντα».

Λέγεται ότι έχει αυξηθεί ο αριθμός των μεταναστριών δεύτερης γενιάς που φορούν μαντίλα. Η έρευνά σας το επιβεβαιώνει;

«Πολύ συχνά, τα νεαρά κορίτσια που φορούν μαντίλα καλύπτονται ενάντια στη θέληση των γονιών τους, που ενοχλούνται γιατί οι ίδιοι ως νέοι την είχαν απορρίψει. Αλλά οι νεότερες γενιές έχουν κάνει την έρευνά τους, έχουν μελετήσει και κάποιες κοπέλες πιστεύουν ότι είναι κομμάτι της πνευματικής ζωής τους. Αλλά, και πάλι, είναι πολύ μικρός ο αριθμός των μεταναστών δεύτερης γενιάς που είναι πιο θρησκευόμενοι από τους γονείς τους. Οι περισσότεροι είναι λιγότερο θρησκευόμενοι γιατί και οι κοινωνίες στις οποίες ζουν είναι λιγότερο θρησκευόμενες. Ωστόσο δεν βλέπω να υπάρχει διαφορά ανάμεσα σ’ έναν ομαλά ενσωματωμένο Ευρωπαίο πολίτη και έναν λιγότερο ομαλά ενσωματωμένο πολίτη, στη βάση της άσκησης των θρησκευτικών καθηκόντων. Δεν νομίζω ότι αν η δεύτερη ή η τρίτη γενιά γίνει πιο πιστή, θα υπάρξει ξαφνικά πρόβλημα ενσωμάτωσης».

Ωστόσο η πραγματικότητα είναι ότι αυτό το φαινόμενο σε κάποιες μερίδες της ευρωπαϊκής κοινωνίας προκαλεί ανησυχία.

«Για τρεις λόγους: Πρώτον, αυτές οι κοινότητες προέρχονται συνήθως από διαφορετικές φυλετικές ομάδες, δείχνουν διαφορετικοί. Οταν κάποιος δείχνει διαφορετικός, καθετί που κάνει ή λέει μπαίνει κάτω από το μικροσκόπιο. Δεύτερον η Ευρώπη μοιράζεται μια μακριά, κοινή ιστορία με το Ισλάμ. Οι Γάλλοι, για παράδειγμα, έχουν ένα πολύ δυσάρεστο παρελθόν με το Μαρόκο και την Αλγερία. Οι Βρετανοί είχαν μια τεράστια αυτοκρατορία και πολλές από τις εξεγέρσεις εναντίον της αυτοκρατορίας εμπνέονταν από το Ισλάμ. Μοιραζόμαστε λοιπόν μια ιστορία συνύπαρξης, αλλά και σύγκρουσης. Ο τρίτος λόγος έχει να κάνει με το ότι η Ευρώπη, σήμερα, είναι πολύ εκκοσμικευμένη. Ετσι οτιδήποτε μπορεί να θεωρηθεί ότι αποκλίνει έστω και ελάχιστα από αυτό το μοντέλο, μπορεί να προκαλέσει ενόχληση ή ανησυχία. Νομίζω ότι πρέπει να υπάρξει μεγαλύτερη κατανόηση εκατέρωθεν. Από τη μια οι πολύ θρησκευόμενοι μουσουλμάνοι -που είναι ελάχιστοι- οφείλουν να εξηγήσουν στην ευρύτερη κοινωνία ότι το γεγονός πως είναι πιστοί δεν σημαίνει πως θέλουν να ανατρέψουν το καθεστώς. Και από την άλλη, νομίζω ότι εξαρτάται από την ίδια την κοινωνία στο σύνολό της να πάψει να ανησυχεί, γιατί δεν υφίσταται κανένας λόγος ανησυχίας».

Info:

i Η.Α.Hellyer, «Muslims of Europe: The “Other Europeans”», Edinburgh Press

Λόγος και ευαισθησία
ΑΠΟ ΤΗΝ ΚΑΤΕΡΙΝΑ ΟΙΚΟΝΟΜΑΚΟΥ katoiko@enet.gr Τις δύο τελευταίες δεκαετίες, ξεκινώντας από την υπόθεση του Σάλμαν Ρούσντι και με αποκορύφωμα τα δανέζικα σκίτσα, έχουν εκφραστεί ανησυχίες γύρω από το κατά πόσον ο σεβασμός σε θρησκευτικές ευαισθησίες μπορεί να αγγίζει τα όρια της λογοκρισίας.
«Οι μουσουλμάνοι είναι, αναλογικά μιλώντας, περισσότερο θρησκευόμενοι από τους υπόλοιπους Ευρωπαίους. Σήμερα – δεν θα κάναμε αυτή τη συζήτηση πριν από εκατό, ούτε καν πριν από πενήντα χρόνια. Επίσης σε διάφορες χώρες υπάρχουν νόμοι που απαγορεύουν τη δυσφήμηση των θρησκειών. Γενικώς στην Ευρώπη δεν υπάρχει αυτό που λέμε απόλυτη ελευθερία λόγου και έκφρασης, αυτή η έννοια δεν υφίσταται. Στους πολιτικούς και τους δημοσιογράφους αρέσει να λένε ότι στην Ευρώπη έχουμε ελευθερία της έκφρασης και ότι είναι κάτι που περιφρουρούμε και θέλουμε να διατηρήσουμε γιατί είναι η βάση του πολιτισμού μας. Αλλά δεν είναι έτσι, γιατί έχουμε ένα σωρό περιορισμούς- για παράδειγμα, στη Γερμανία δεν μπορεί να πει κανείς οτιδήποτε για το Ολοκαύτωμα, και υπάρχει πολύ σοβαρός λόγος γι’ αυτό, δεν διαφωνώ καθόλου με αυτό τον περιορισμό. Σε άλλες χώρες δεν μπορεί να μιλήσει κανείς άσχημα για τη βασιλική οικογένεια· έπειτα υπάρχουν τα κρατικά μυστικά».

Τα κρατικά μυστικά δεν παραμένουν μυστικά, από φόβο μήπως αισθανθεί κάποιος προσβεβλημένος. Αλλά κι αυτά, αν τύχει και πάψουν να είναι μυστικά, συζητιούνται ανοιχτά.

«Ηθελα να επισημάνω ότι απόλυτη ελευθερία λόγου δεν υπάρχει ούτως ή άλλως. Επειτα, όπως πολλοί πιστεύουν ότι το Ολοκαύτωμα ή η βασιλική οικογένεια δεν εμπίπτουν στις προβλέψεις περί ελευθερίας του λόγου, έτσι και οι μουσουλμάνοι έχουν τις δικές τους ευαισθησίες που προφανώς αφορούν κυρίως τη θρησκεία τους. Εδώ υπάρχει κάτι που προσωπικά δεν κατανοώ πολύ καλά, αλλά στην πορεία έμαθα να σέβομαι -βλέπουν τη θρησκεία τους με τον ίδιο πάνω-κάτω τρόπο που εγώ ή εσείς βλέπουμε την οικογένειά μας. Τέλος, υπάρχουν νόμοι περί δυσφήμησης -δεν μπορώ να τριγυρνάω αποκαλώντας έναν άνθρωπο κλέφτη, γιατί μπορεί να μου κάνει μήνυση».

Υπάρχει τεράστια διαφορά ανάμεσα στη δυσφήμηση ενός προσώπου και την κριτική σε ιδέες και δόγματα.

«Εσείς κι εγώ μπορεί να το πιστεύουμε αυτό, αλλά πρέπει να καταλάβετε ότι για τους πολύ θρησκευόμενους το πρόσωπο του Προφήτη δεν είναι κάτι απόμακρο. Μάλιστα μια από τις δοκιμασίες για τους πολύ πιστούς μουσουλμάνους είναι αν τον αγαπούν περισσότερο από την ίδια τους την οικογένεια. Οφείλουμε να προσεγγίζουμε το θέμα με σύνεση. Η ιδέα των κοσμικών κρατών στην Ευρώπη του 21ου αιώνα είναι κάτι που μας βρίσκει όλους σύμφωνους. Την ίδια στιγμή, η ιδέα του σεβασμού προς την έννοια του ιερού, στη δημόσια σφαίρα, είναι θέμα ανοιχτό προς συζήτηση, αξίζει να γίνει αντικείμενο πολιτισμένου διαλόγου, χωρίς φόβο ή ταπεινώσεις».

«Τα κίνητρα των τρομοκρατών δεν είναι θρησκευτικά»

«Τα προβλήματα υπάρχουν γιατί άνθρωποι σαν τους τύπους της Αλ Κάιντα μιλούν για τους εαυτούς τους και τη δράση τους με θρησκευτικούς όρους. Σε μια κοινότητα και μια κοινωνία που γνωρίζει ελάχιστα πράγματα για το Ισλάμ και το μόνο που βλέπει είναι κάτι τύποι με γενειάδες που γυρνάνε από δω κι από κει λέγοντας “είμαι μουσουλμάνος, θα σας ανατινάξω”… ε, δεν εκπλήσσομαι που μπορεί να ανησυχούν όταν βλέπουν έναν άνδρα με τέτοια εμφάνιση. Βέβαια, σε μια κοινωνία με τόσο υψηλό μορφωτικό επίπεδο όπως είναι η Ευρώπη, θα περίμενα από τους συμπατριώτες μας να χρησιμοποιούν πιο σοβαρά κριτήρια όταν βγάζουν συμπεράσματα από την εμφάνιση των ανθρώπων. Οσο για τους τρομοκράτες του Ιουλίου του 2005, δεν είχαν προβλήματα ενσωμάτωσης, δεν κατοικούσαν σε γκέτο μεταναστών, δεν προέρχονταν από θρησκευόμενες οικογένειες. Οι περισσότεροι άργησαν πολύ να δείξουν ενδιαφέρον για το Ισλάμ. Κατά πάσα πιθανότητα, ήρθαν σε επαφή με το Ισλάμ μέσω βαθιά ριζοσπαστικοποιημένων στοιχείων που έρχονταν από χώρες εκτός Βρετανίας. Τα κίνητρά τους δεν ήταν θρησκευτικά, ήταν πολιτικά – για εμάς είναι εξαιρετικά δύσκολο να τα ξεχωρίσουμε, γιατί χρησιμοποιούν θρησκευτικό λεξιλόγιο».

 

——

photo credit: Diego Cupolo

 

 

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